Home > Chips on Shoulders, Flounce, Politics, The Dark Side > Can you believe it?

Can you believe it?

Before the ink has dried on the ballot papers, the great unwashed idiot brigade is already getting itself in a lather (but not soap).

‘We only wanted to protest, not to leave.’ ‘We want a second vote.’ ‘The Bleavers lied’. Ad nauseam…

And to cap them all, Cleggover vows to campaign in the next election to reverse the decision to leave. I’m pleased that HM the Queen will have a chance to ask him for three good reasons why.

I’m forgetting, the end of June is traditionally the Silly Season in politics. The poor dears are in need of a few months’ break now, to return with batteries recharged, to create chaos once again.

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  1. June 26, 2016 at 6:46 am

    Brexit is still a long way off.

  2. June 26, 2016 at 7:02 am

    Que? Not you as well! The UK IS going to leave.

  3. Boadicea
    June 26, 2016 at 10:04 am

    Clegg will not stand a chance. I think this is one of the best articles I’ve read on the referendum.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3660282/Boston-Lincolngrad-saw-seething-resentment-time-finish-revolution-says-PETER-HITCHENS.html

    All three parties will have to accept that they are so out of touch with so many people that they are going to have to change their tune. Although I see little signs of any doing thatat the moment.

    I know some idiot MP has said that the referendum can be ignored since it’s not legally binding. Others are trying to say that the referendum did not explicitly say that Britain should completely exit the EU – that they can still join the Free Market – but that will mean open borders remain.

    It might appear that an analysis of the Petition shows a large number of overseas people have signed – I don’t know how it works – but apparently all you need is a UK postcode and that’s not difficult to acquire. I could do that! . Some of the reasons given are, apparently, that the turn-out was not 75% or that there should have been a 60% approval rate.

    I’ve also read a lot of Remainers are now wishing that they had voted out, and the vice versa. Rumour is Rife.

    It seems to me that there are far too many people who were taught that if they threw a tantrum the ‘grown-ups’ would give in.

    I sincerely hope that those idiots in Parliament realise that they will be in deep trouble if they decide against the will of the people. I would suspect that UKIP would sweep the board in those areas which were so definitely out. It would also show those Remainers who do understand democracy that it is well and truly dead.

    In the meantime there doesn’t seem to be anyone in charge at all. Cameron has spit the dummy, as we say here, and the Conservative Party is too busy trying not to give Johnson any say… I see Osborne is touted as a possible leader – they couldn’t really be so stupid could they? The Labour Party is unravelling – not that it’s their responsibility to do anything anyway. So I’m not too surprised that Clegg thinks he’s in with a chance.

  4. sheona
    June 26, 2016 at 11:42 am

    I do hope that all those who are complaining that democracy got it wrong – including a twenty year old student from Warwick university as shown in the Sunday Times – will now start some serious language learning so they can trot off and tell the citizens of any other EU state who vote “the wrong way” just how naughty they are. Obviously the word democracy – one man one vote – means nothing to them and the fact that a large number of EU citizens also want the chance to express their dissatisfaction has not penetrated their pc little heads.

  5. Boadicea
    June 26, 2016 at 12:51 pm

    I listened to the Green MP for Brighton and Hove, who just happens to be my mother’s MP courtesy of the students of Sussex University. I am still reeling from her comment, which was that, since most MPs were in favour of the EU, it was appalling that millions of people were rebelling against their MPs.

    I think more than a few MPs need some lessons as to why they are elected. I don’t think we chopped a king’s head off because he thought he had a “divine right” to do whatever he wanted so that our elected representatives could behave in exactly the same way. I don’t know how it can be done – but it really is time that MPs are taught that they are our servants and not our masters.

  6. Four-eyed English Genius
    June 26, 2016 at 12:56 pm

    I think it was Cleggie’s successor Tim Farron who promised to campaign for rejoining the EU at the next election. Good luck with that one, especially as the LibDums have precisely 8 MPs now.

    More amusing is this “online” petition to the Government for a new Act using the HoC process to consider holding a new referendum as the last one was not decisive enough! It claims to have 3 million signatures so far. This all sounds very impressive until it turns out that 39,000 signatures are from email addresses in the Vatican City (pop 800) and even funnier are the 24,000 from North Korea. The Twitterati really are idiots who are getting desperate!!

  7. June 26, 2016 at 1:38 pm

    Well it seems as though there were those in the Leave camp who were talking the talk but not walking the walk, Hannan and Carswell to name but two. They wanted eurosceptic street cred but not Brexit. Unfortunately for them and to the surprise of many Brexit became unstoppable.
    Well they are going to have to do some very fast talking or incur the wrath of both sides.

    BTW if the Tories think that the nation is going to hang around until October whilst they elect a new leader to lead us out of the EU by means of article 50 they are sadly mistaken.

  8. June 26, 2016 at 1:47 pm

    Boadicea: in East Germany the saying was “The People have forfeited the trust of their government”. I am not sure how much of this outrage is real, how much is short-term shock and how much is manufactured.

  9. June 26, 2016 at 2:17 pm

    Unfortunately, the ruling class will take their holidays , come what may. Lawyers will take their time and hey presto it’s October! Sorry, FEEG

  10. June 26, 2016 at 2:43 pm

    October ? Three months, plenty of time for both political parties to thrash themselves to pieces. Should be fun to watch.

  11. Boadicea
    June 26, 2016 at 3:06 pm

    FEEG – Just as well that there are people who can analyse these things. How public will these findings be and will anyone really be bothered?

    Jazz – I am sure that there were many who simply talked the talk because they didn’t really believe it would happen. They should be excluded from any further part in what occurs next.

    I can understand that a ‘little’ time might be needed to sort out a strategy to get the best way to negotiate an Out – but not four months.

    I am sadly suspicious that Merkel has said that there is, now, no hurry to negotiate an exit – so what does she know that we don’t? I really hate to be so suspicious – but, alas, experience has taught me to distrust almost all those who say they represent me – but only represent themselves.

    As far as I’m concerned both the Tory and Labour Parties are fiddling while Britain burns. This is not a time to sort out their own problems – but to deal with what they were elected for. But they seem to think that their petty concerns are more important than anyone else. Janus, correct me if I’m wrong – so did Rome fall…

    On a separate and personal level, I am extremely sad to say that the only person in my family who seems to have inherited my passion is my grandson here in Oz, who texted me when the outcome was certain: “We Brexited”. I told my daughter, who said she meant to vote OUT until she got in the polling booth and got cold feet, that she should have worn thicker socks – the things one does to preserve family harmony. But, I do wonder how many others did the same.

  12. June 26, 2016 at 3:43 pm

    As said earlier, the line coming from influential ‘wet’ Brexiteers like Daniel Hannan is that we’ll still be obliged to accept unlimited EU migrants in return for access to the Single Market. That bit of defeatism has got to be nipped in the bud and fast, even if it means getting confrontational with our erstwhile “partners” if they think they can persist in their 43 years of political and economic blackmail.

    How? It’ll be called precipitating a trade war, but I prefer to call it a mounting of passive resistance. We basically turn the tables, and do what the founding Six did do us: we set up a UK customs union, imposing tariifs on EU imports, maybe fixed, or maybe set industry by industry, e,g, 5% for wine, 10% for cars. We say that is the new reversionary status quo, hopefully a temporary one, while we each pay each others’ tariffs, and then make efforts to negotiate them away ASAP, import by import. At no point do we agree to let the EU dictate our immigration or other internal policies. To do so would be to negate the purpose, nay imperative, of holding a referendum, one that showed the mood of the people to be entirely different from that of our MPs, the majority of whom have caved in for far too long to each new EU diktat.

    To those who say we can’t succeed, that we have to accept a Norway/Switzerland type accommodation, I say cobblers. We have 5 times their combined population and the economic clout that goes with being a major market for EU imports. It’s time we wielded that bargaining power, and told our own submissive wets in Westminster and elsewhere to go find a quiet corner where they can drip dry or failing that get their arses out of UK politics.

  13. June 26, 2016 at 3:45 pm

    Some sayy too many immigrants were Rome’s downfall! 😱

  14. christinaosborne
    June 26, 2016 at 3:53 pm

    Bo has already said it all for me.
    Perhaps a snap general election right now is the answer? Get rid of the wets!

  15. June 26, 2016 at 8:41 pm

    There is such discord in all the parties that none of them can even agree a manifesto! That’s another reason to expect a slow march.

  16. June 26, 2016 at 10:36 pm

    Whatever you may think of Boris, and I have my doubts, I think he hit the right note with this article:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/26/i-cannot-stress-too-much-that-britain-is-part-of-europe–and-alw/

  17. Boadicea
    June 26, 2016 at 10:48 pm

    Araminta I am a huge fan of Boris for the simple reason that he once said that every MP should stop wasting taxpayers’ money on limos and chauffeurs and travel on the London Underground in rush hour. Having done that more than once or twice in the last few years, I think it would be a salutary lesson for some of those out-of-touch pollies.

    I agree that he hit just the right note.

  18. June 26, 2016 at 10:53 pm

    Boadicea.

    I’m just so fed up with reading about the negatives of Brexit.

    After all the doom and gloom in the press, it was a brilliantly written piece. I am a Boris fan, but I’m just not sure he is quite PM material, but this article may just make me change my mind.

  19. Boadicea
    June 27, 2016 at 1:51 am

    Araminta

    Likewise – but then some people just love being pessimistic – especially when things have not gone their way!

    I’m not sure who would be good PM material. They surely cannot elect Osborne after his threats, a serious political mistake, or May who after all her posturing then toed the party line. Whatever they do they have to put someone in who is firmly committed to a full withdrawal – not a half-hearted neither in or out.

    Unfortunately, it seems to they are too busy pursuing their own little vendettas to be be bothered with what they are actually there for – which is to do what they have been directed to do in such a way that it ends up serving the best interests of Britain.

  20. June 27, 2016 at 6:15 am

    Boadicea: Osborne is perhaps the only Tory more hated than Cameron.His threats absolutely destroyed his political future and voters would not readily forgive that, especially not those voters inclined to vote for the Conservative Party. May has her moments of brilliance, but she also has the most squalid and tone-deaf moments that quickly undermine good will. Johnson will have to take a prominent role, as will Gove and Hammond. Both sides need to be represented to avoid causing more fractures.

    I expect that the UK will remain in the common market with a reformed freedom of movement. Frankly, the UK and Europe are far too closely interwoven for there to be a clean separation. There has been a lot of abuse and that can be dealt with, but there are millions on both sides who could be badly affected by this if it goes wrong and negotiations go both ways. The UK will be able to, like Norway, take back control over its most important interests and, like Switzerland, be able to benefit from access to the European market for its financial services. So long as negotiations aren’t completely bungled the City will be fine, anyway. Frankfurt is simply too small and lacks the infrastructure — including basic housing! Paris is Paris and France is very shaky.

  21. June 27, 2016 at 7:46 am

    ….and the UK will not be paying the hundreds of millions of Pounds to Brussels every week! So 18 bn p.a. is too high an estimate. If it’s 5 or 10 it is a mammoth amount.

    Having watched a weekend of abuse from all sides, the gubmint is now back in the wheel-house. So Juncker can put his finger back where it usually resides.

  22. Boadicea
    June 27, 2016 at 8:32 am

    I’m not so sure that reformed Freedom of Movement will do at all Christopher, the British were promised absolute control of their borders, Ozzie style, and will feel utterly betrayed if it is not forthcoming.

    Janus, it would appear that Juncker has been told in no uncertain terms that his behaviour was so antagonistic that he was the cause of Brexit – well they have to blame someone – and has been ordered to quit.

    I also see that German manufacturers have demanded free trade with the UK.

    On a more disturbing note. I see that Blair is sticking his nose in with Sturgeon to have a revote. I presume that would have to go through Parliament – I hope there are enough MPs with sufficient integrity to block that – although I’m not going to hold my breath.

  23. June 27, 2016 at 8:40 am

    Moderator, can you change the ‘where’ in my June 26, 2016 at 1:38 pm to a ‘were’…it’s annoying me.

    I see there are myriad calls for a second referendum. Well that’s the way to go if you really want trouble.

  24. June 27, 2016 at 8:53 am

    Yes, let’s have a rerun of the referendum (the 1975 EC one that is). Alternatively, we’ll stick with the result of the new one, and review it again in 40 or so years’ time…

  25. Boadicea
    June 27, 2016 at 9:00 am

    Done Jazz!

  26. June 27, 2016 at 9:45 am

    Boadicea: I understand your point, but consider this. There are many continental Europeans in the UK who are solid, decent and honest people that contribute much to society. There are people like me who do well in British social contexts and are so integrated that they can’t return to the continental fold easily. Then there are insufferable pseudo-intellectuals from the UK that have settled on the continent where they can pretend to be interesting and sophisticated. They’re generally self-loathing, but form monolingual enclaves in which they create a passable imitation of British colonial society. There are so notable exceptions, our OZ among them. Frankly, if you knew the whingey pom wankers I have to suffer here on a regular basis I doubt you’d want them back in the UK!

  27. June 27, 2016 at 10:14 am

    For the record, Backers and I are a colonial enclave, proud to be poms and really happy with Brexit. 😷

  28. June 27, 2016 at 10:19 am

    Janus: I certainly wasn’t trying to say that every pommie on the Continent is a tosser, but I’ve dealt with far too many of Britain’s most dysfunctional whose sense of self-worth is in excess of reality.

  29. Boadicea
    June 27, 2016 at 11:01 am

    I think Christopher you may have missed my point. As far as I can make out, Brits on the continent will stay where they are, as will EU citizens resident in Britain. However, what has to come to an absolute stop is the right of any EU citizen to settle in Britain. Nothing less will either solve the problem of uncontrolled immigration or satisfy the British Public – leave or remain. A reformed system simply will not do. And, furthermore, Britain (and I believe any other EU country) must have the right to repatriate any non-indigenous person who does not find work after a specified time or commits a crime – permanently.

    No non-Brit should have access to benefits immediately. When my family came to Oz, accepted on the ‘points system’ and partly ‘family reunion’, we had to guarantee that we would keep them for a year if they could not find work – I believe it is now two years.

    I can imagine some of the nightmares you have had to deal with – but then I’ve had to distance myself from Ozzies in the UK!

  30. June 27, 2016 at 1:26 pm

    Boadicea: what I meant by a “reformed freedom of labour” is not the present system. Rather, people have the right to seek employment and, if they have the means, live in the UK/Continent but will have no access to benefits for a certain number of years. Criminals will need to be deported as will all sundry ne’er-do-goods. The UK faces a number of challenges that will only be exacerbated if it leaves the Common Market. London and hundreds of thousands of jobs rely on financial services will be severely impacted. Northern Ireland’s complex situation requires a level of social and economic integration with the Republic of Ireland that can no longer be negotiated outside the EEA. As much as I’d prefer to send the SNats to York in order to resume a queer ancient tradition Scots do have a right to demand that their interests be protected and this is a reasonable solution. There is a great deal of desire to reform “freedom of movement” anyway and this could just be an excuse to sort it out. To an extent, this has already started to be chipped away. In Sweden, non-Swedes have to have their own healthcare as the Swedish state will no longer pay for their healthcare for a certain number of years and in the Netherlands people have to work for four years to gain access to benefits.

    The consensus here is that I should just bugger off to the West Country as that is clearly a better fit for me.

  31. Boadicea
    June 27, 2016 at 1:34 pm

    I’m not so sure about the financial sector. Bearsy is the right person to answer this because he read a very interesting article from some high bod in the Financial Sector who explained that all the necessary procedures had been in place for a long time to enable London to continue to act as it always has. And since, as I understand it, there were already measures in place from the EU to damage London’s primacy in financial affairs it seems to me to matter not a jot whether Britain stays in or leaves.

  32. June 27, 2016 at 1:49 pm

    Boadicea: London has certain inherent advantages and disadvantages and major business centres always have several contingency plans. London’s main advantages are that it has the best developed infrastructure, the most flight connexions, an experienced and diverse workforce and the most developed business network. Frankfurt lacks the infrastructure, workforce and common law framework. They can’t even house the population they have, much less find space for the scores of thousands they’d anticipate would settle there. German Law is trusted and is the model most commonly copied for domestic purposes, but it doesn’t do so well in international business as it can be readily amended with little recourse. Paris is in France and that is enough to deter anyone from making a large-scale move. London’s primary disadvantage is that it is hated and despised by its continental rivals. Remaining in the Common Market would allow the UK to escape the EU’s bureaucracy and guarantee that it is outside ever closer union — it would also require the UK to pay only a small fraction in contributions, but it would allow for a smooth transition and no longer prevent the UK from pursuing its interests outside of Europe.

  33. June 27, 2016 at 3:03 pm

    Referring to Arrer’s comment about Boris, not ‘being PM material’, may I ask who ever was?

    Some will mention Bliar, a young, clean-cut, smooth-talking lawyer. That went well, huh? Or Major? No skeletons? Right. Or do we have to go back to war-hero Churchill? He was as much of a rogue as Boris for decades.

    The fact is that PMs are as handsome as their deeds, not their looks or eccentricities. Go Boris!

  34. June 27, 2016 at 3:54 pm

    As Christopher ‘sort of says says’ London will survive and prosper outside the EU because the hatred and contempt of European rivals will have less effect outside the EU than within it.

  35. June 27, 2016 at 4:42 pm

    Jazz: “Sort of say”? The City profits from being bound by Common Law and, to a large extent, because of its access to the Common Market. Leaving the EU is the best thing that could have happened to the City, but access to the Common Market is still a benefit. By leaving the EU the UK regains its full sovereignty and can cut out 80pc of the problems associated with it.

  36. June 27, 2016 at 4:50 pm

    My dad (1919-1997) reckoned he knew the exact point at which the postwar history of Europe took a turn for the worse. He was on duty at the entrance to British Broadcasting House in 1943 when General De Gaulle, leader of the Free French arrived with his entourage to be interviewed on radio. Yup, my old man, opting for bespectacled non-war hero status, who just happened to be doing guard duty at the time, told De Gaulle to his face he would have to unclip his holster and hand over his pistol before entering. He reckons that was when De Gaulle decided we Brits were the real enemy… The rest as they say is history, soon to be made clear re direction with not just one but two haughty “nons” when we applied, cap in hand, to join the embryonic Common Market.

    Time maybe, rules permitting, to put the clock back, and set up our own UK customs union? One that penalizes French and German imports until such a time as those two residual grudge-bearing prima donnas rid themselves of their wartime hangups and started treating us as well-intentioned equals, ex-EU, free of their diktats?

    Acknowledging our role as WW2 liberators (assisted by the US and Commonwealth nations etc) turning so many prime locations in our city centres to bombsites can come later.

  37. June 27, 2016 at 5:11 pm

    Colin: I sympathise with your argument, but I fear that too many years have gone by for that to be workable. There are now far too many Britons living on the continent, far too many investments and trade links south of Dover for that to be applicable. The EU can make life a living hell for the UK and the UK can make life a living hell for the EU — but this would accomplish nothing. We’ve achieved our primary goal, the liberation of the United Kingdom from its euroshackles. Now we have to work to ensure that the transition goes as smoothly as possible. Someone pointed out a really interesting detail today… if the UK delays activating Article 50 for long enough, the UK will hold the EU’s rotating presidency and would be negotiating terms with itself.

  38. June 27, 2016 at 5:48 pm

    Sorry, I disagree ChristopherT, much as I respect your informed and penetrating analysis. What’s needed now is for the departing UK to seize the initiative. Let’s not wait for the vindictive elements in the EU to put us on the rack. Abandon briefly our historic free-trade ideals. Set up an immediate trade barrier to certain EU imports (selective!). Replace slow blackmail with instant embargos on certain goods that we can make for ourselves (but don’t mention Austin Allegros). Everything else has been tried and failed.

  39. June 27, 2016 at 6:19 pm

    Colin, I hope you have a Plan B when you try to enter/leave Fortress Europe after your blockade? 😎

  40. June 27, 2016 at 6:37 pm

    Fortresse Europe was jerry-built from the word go…(oops).

  41. June 27, 2016 at 7:38 pm

    😎

  42. Boadicea
    June 28, 2016 at 8:50 am

    Hidden away in an article today came a statement that Cameron has set up (or is starting to set up) a group of civil servants to pave the way for negotiations out of the EU, and that in his first speech to the Commons warned MPs not to seek to overturn the decision, saying: β€˜There can be no doubt about the result.’

    Can anyone else confirm this?

  43. June 28, 2016 at 9:58 am

    Last night I went for a celebratory drink with a few fellow campaigners. The talk turned to an early GE as a ploy to overturn or neutralise the referendum result. This may could happen but it’s a risky option as some of the blue Brexit areas on the BBC’s results chart could turn thus purple upsetting the apple cart.
    I’ll bet that those Tory strategists who called the referendum wrong are currently mulling this over. What is the Labour Party doing ? Search me.

  44. June 28, 2016 at 10:00 am

    Yes, Boa, it was reported after his Commons speech. And of course the Civil Service are getting their ducks in a row. It’s what they do best.

  45. June 28, 2016 at 10:02 am

    Jazz,as Boris said, what part of Leave don’t people understand. And to quote Farage, it’s not a one out of three!

  46. Boadicea
    June 28, 2016 at 11:40 am

    I’m beginning to hope that some of the present government have finally realised that the electorate is not as stupid as they thought, not as compliant as they believed and that they, the Tories, are in a very difficult position and cannot mess around with weasel interpretations of the referendum result to get what they want. Their first reactions seem to be have been disbelief, followed by badgering, bullying and intimidation, and finally by trying ‘legalistic nit-picking” to avoid following the clear directive of the British people.

    I don’t have much time for Cameron, his promises are like icicles in sunshine and I’m sure if he could, he would overturn the result. But he just might have grasped the fact that, if the Tories are to survive, they must stand by their commitment to honour the referendum – or they will become irrelevant – and the Blue of Middle England will, as Jazz says, turn to purple.

    Heaven knows what Labour are up to – they seem hell-bent on destroying themselves completely. That they are blaming Corbyn for not getting traditional Labour voters to vote to Remain says that they have not realised that they are totally out of touch with their traditional voters.

    I doubt that either Party would take the chance of a GE – who knows where anyone would vote.

  47. June 28, 2016 at 4:48 pm

    The Sun today under ‘Dodged that bullet’ reports on a new EU proposal for a superstate, complete with one central bank, pooled military resources and much more. The final nail on the coffin of members’ sovereignty?

  48. June 28, 2016 at 7:55 pm

    No matter what I think we’re on our way to the exit. Brussels is v pi$$ed off and they want us gone.I understand that Australia and NZ already want to do trade deals. All I can say to that is that we have better friends than we deserve.

  49. June 29, 2016 at 1:32 am

    Parapet. Head. Stick it over.

    Time to add a new voice to the proceedings. I voted remain. It just felt like the best thing to do. Unlike a fart, I believe it to be better in than out. We’re not tied to the Euro (courtesy of the much-derided Gordon Brown) and all the malaise that goes with it, and are stronger in a pact (Again, GB came to the rescue in the Scotty Reffy thing) than going alone. I bet Russia are happy with the result. We now have a fractured Isle.

    Corrupt? No. if you take my word for it I would pass the Sipu test of being ” a thoroughly decent human being”.
    Terminally stupid? Probably. Then again, At the end of the day, aren’t all bloggers?

    Well played, Brexiteers. Though, you did only win on penalties.

  50. christinaosborne
    June 29, 2016 at 3:52 am

    I expect your wits were addled by your choice of ‘music’.
    Next time try plainsong chant, more likely to put the cross in the right box.

  51. June 29, 2016 at 6:05 am

    JW, what a pity then you won’t enjoy the ‘closer ties’ proposed yesterday by the Kraut and Frog foreign ministers, involving ONE central bank, ONE military force and ONE economy. Exquisite timing, methinks. Also note the ‘honest’ Juncker’s vindictive attitude, ‘we didn’t like you anyway, so there!’ HM the Queen has the mantra for all royalists, give me three good reasons to remain.
    Meanwhile Donald Tusk gave the Scotch Harridan the cold shoulder.

  52. June 29, 2016 at 7:02 am

    And another thing! Don’t be fooled by the EU’s use of the oldest bargaining gambit: take it or leave it. Of the 27 remaining gubmints many want close ties with the UK to continue and will not shut up shop.

  53. O Zangado
    June 29, 2016 at 7:12 am

    JW – I would be shocked and shallow enough to ‘unfriend’ you on Faceache if I had an account. In the absence of such and in the true democratic spirit for which Remainaholics and their Brussels masters are renowned, you must now go away and vote again (and again and again if necessary) until you GET IT RIGHT.

    Smiley, etc.

    OZ

  54. June 29, 2016 at 9:21 am

    Morning all, thanks for the feedback.

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