Happy Bloody Christmas America

Eighteen children under ten and ten adults said to have died in Connecticut school.

Link here

Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States is the right to keep and to bear arms.

Right, or is it?  How bloody sad for the parents of these children, and the families of  their teachers who were slaughtered.

I doubt very much that the citizens of the United States would want any restrictions to their right to bear arms but is there any way these killings can be prevented?

37 thoughts on “Happy Bloody Christmas America”

  1. I believe that the right to keep and bear arms was “as part of a militia” or such a group. This is always conveniently forgotten of course. Charlton Heston did say that any reform of the gun laws would be “over my cold dead body” and he’s been dead for a few years now but any attempt by Obama to do something would probably only result in a bullet for him. I agree with Bravo – nothing can be done so the Americans just have to live with it.

  2. 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution:

    “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

    Many people forget the ‘well regulated’ bit.

    OZ

  3. Afternoon, Araminta. The Second Amendment was enacted in 1791 and things, even in Me’ri’ca, have moved on a bit since then. They have a professional standing army these days, so it is more than a little disingenuous for the NRA to use part of the clause for its own purposes. Having said that, I believe the banning of weapons is as impossible as it would be unwelcome. The handgun ban in the UK, for example, only affected law-abiding people such as sports shooters and our Olympic pistol team. As with drugs, if something is made illegal then the criminals move in and to quote the old adage, ‘When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns.’ Simplistic, but true.

    OZ

  4. Hi OZ.

    I doubt that much would wean American from its gun culture, the Gun Lobby is too strong.

    Having read reports of this in the US press, there are many commenting on this tragedy, who think that things should change, but as usual there is a great deal of discussion which follows every such incident but little action.

    We shall see.

  5. Bravo and Sheona.

    You are probably right, but the Second Amendment may well come under pressure after this latest incident but as I said to OZ, we shall see.

  6. It is unfortunate but true that if you make gun possession illegal, only the bad guys will have guns, as demonstrated in the UK. The problem in some states of the USA is that you are allowed to carry concealed guns.

    As Bravo says, there is nothing you can do, If someone is determined enough to go on a shooting spree, there is no way to stop them getting a gun and shooting other than by someone else with a gun shooting them first, or disabling them with some other weapon.

  7. Hi FEEG.

    I appreciate that they is not much can do if someone is determined to go on shooting spree, but apparently in this instance –

    “Law enforcement officials said the weapons used by the gunman were a Sig Sauer and a Glock, both handguns. The police also found a Bushmaster .223 M4 carbine.”

    These were apparently all perfectly legal and registered to the mother of the now dead perpetrator of this massacre.
    Seems unclear as to whether he killed his mother first.

  8. My four penn’orth: I think the whole American culture is to blame. Look at their movies. Overflowing with murder and mayhem, where street cred is all. Add the fact that guns have become endemic and you have the potential for mass excutions of this kind. I see no sign whatever that any political movement to restrict gun ownership could succeed – so it’s a vicious spiral.

  9. Well then

    There is absolutely no chance whatsoever that I’ll surrender my firearms.

    nor my dogs!

    I have no problem with people living elsewhere deciding that they’re not needed, not here not ever.

  10. Hi Janus.

    Yes, I tend to agree with you, but we are subject to the same influences, but we don’t have easy access to military grade weapons for which I am eternally grateful. There is no gun culture here to compare with the US.

  11. Araminta :
    <p military grade weapons for which I am eternally grateful.

    I’m now confused, did this shooters mother have ‘military grade’ weapons?

    In fact what was he using?

  12. Soutie.

    It was a general comment as to weapons in the US, but in this instance the weapons as reported in the press are mentioned in my comment #10.

    The information keeps changing though, I read somewhere that there were more weapons found at the school.

  13. I was going to start this comment by saying that I blame the mother.

    Not the mother perhaps but certainly the owner of the firearms, down here, we have rules about possessing them.

    They have to be permanently locked in a government approved gun safe.

    The only people allowed access are the license holders (my wife and I)

    Should we take one out, it has to be on our possession. We are not even allowed to ‘lend’ a weapon to an individual with the same license.

    Should we lose one or have one stolen it has to be reported immediately. (Would you believe that the gun that killed Anni Dewani was last week proved to be an unreported stolen firearm, the original owner, if he is still in the country will be charged with accessory to murder!)

    We do not take the right to protect ourselves lightly.

    Firearm ownership is a very very large responsibility. One that we don’t take lightly.

  14. I feel that firearm ownership in the US is perhaps not subject to any responsibility. There seem to few checks on anything as far as I can see, although this does vary enormously from state to state.

    Regarding military grade weapons, there was a ban for a while in the US but this has lapsed.

    http://www.economist.com/node/21559617

  15. I found it sad that the Gun Lobby’s instant response to the shooting was regret that no one had a gun at the school to shoot the perpetrator with. For heavens sake! It is a primary school. What sort of society thinks it needs to keep firearms at a school for young children?

    As has been mentioned here, the original right to bear arms was for military reasons. A young State needed to ensure that its citizens could fight off those pesky Indians – and the British should they try to reinstate their control over the rebels! But none of that is necessary now.

    The problem that I see in trying to get America to give up its guns is that there are just too many firearms around and, while there is some support for gun control, it just isn’t sufficient to give any Government there the support it needs to regulate the ownership of weapons.

    After the Port Arthur massacre in 1996, there was a ban and a compulsory buy-back of fire-arms. It’s estimated that 85% of the population here supported the move – more than enough to get the measures through.

    Soutie – I found your comments on gun ownership interesting. Especially the fact that the ‘owner’ of the unreported stolen firearm will be charged with accessory to murder. Sounds about right to me!

  16. Boadicea.

    Yes, it sounds exceedingly odd to me that the first response was that teachers should be armed. Still more bizarre the view that this would never have happened had schools not been a “gun free zone”. Fortress America!

    Should they arm teachers, pupils and worried parents taking shifts patrolling the school boundaries?

    There really is not sufficient support in the US to envisage any realistic measures to prevent this sort of thing happening again.

    Their constitution, their problem, but one cannot help but feel for the innocent victims.

  17. Hey, Bearsy.

    Nice to see you, but hold your fire until a few Rednecks dash across.

    Only joshing. It’s probably not very PC of me to mention it. Should I substitute Ockers? 🙂

  18. Unreported is that on the same day 22 people were injured by a mentally disturbed man in China with a knife. Most victims were young children.

    The problem is not necessarily guns. In Switzerland men are required to keep and maintain them.
    But do we hear about massacres in that Alpine land? No. In fact, crime is very, very low in the Helvetic Confederation. Gun ownership is also wide-spread in Canada, Finland, and Norway. (The Breivik affair not withstanding, Norway tends to have lower violent crime rates as well) Even within the USA states such as North Dakota, South Dakota, Vermont, and Minnesota have fairly liberal fun laws and very low crime. Alternately, Chicago, Los Angeles, and New York City have very strict gun laws and very high crime rates.
    The matter is cultural. Much of the United States does not have a functional or cohesive society. There is little sense of community remaining. In the areas that have them, especially in the parts of the Midwest previously mentioned, there is somehow still a coherent way of life. Hence, crime in general is low.

    Society in much of the United States has degenerated to such an extent that guns have become a necessity. Violent crime is so high that not being armed is an invitation to be assaulted, to be killed.
    It has become a brave new world where the over-riding principle is Lenin’s who/whom.

  19. Thank you, Christopher.

    Very interesting insight on the cultural problems. Lack of community seems to be the issue you think is the most important factor.

    I have been made aware of the Chinese attacks Elsewhere, but as you rightly say, it has not been widely reported, and to my knowledge no one has died as yet, and sad though it is, running wild with a knife does not have quite the same killing power as a gun.

  20. The term ocker is quite subtle and depends upon context and a raft of other factors. It is not the same as the Australian redneck, although it could be close sometimes. My comment – or the image, to be more precise – is intended as irony, not as a reflection of my political or humanistic attitudes.

    Real men don’t crave guns.

    Enough! 😀

  21. I was talking to a friend who works in the police earlier tonight who said that gun ownership ups the ante, as it were because, statistically, criminals always want to be at least five per cent stronger than the person apprehending them. So if every police officer is armed, gun ownership in the least desirable sections of society goes through the roof and subsequently becomes commonplace.

  22. Take….a marriage breakup, a lonely, nerdy teenage son who takes it badly. In other words; any normal/ dysfunctional western household. Then add in obsessive video gaming, a few potent family rows and finally, guns, and what do you get….? A catalyst for mass murder, that’s what.

  23. I should clarify that by “lack of community” I mean the lack of agreed upon standards of behaviour and social interactions. When people do as they wish, when they wish without regards to those around them things quickly go wrong. There are so many murders in the USA, there is so much carnage that very little is truly shocking any more. Rather than trying to figure out what went wrong or trying to make things better the USA has descended into a mire of self-loathing, excuses, and shifting of blame. That is, if people can even be bothered to acknowledge that there aren’t simply splendid.

  24. Bleuebelle.

    Thanks for your comments.

    Regarding your #28, yes put that way, and we are finding out more about the family circumstances it is a veritable recipe for disaster.

  25. Christopher.

    Yes, I see your point but it seems that this latest carnage is more shocking because the children who died were so young. Looking at international press reaction it seems that many people are questioning what is happening to the United States.

  26. Janus: Scandinavia also doesn’t have an international drug war fought in its south-west with increasing ramifications to the north. You’re being a bit naive about just how vicious and bloody life in the USA has become. Mafias, drug cartels, international gangs, etc all operate to shocking extents in the US. The amount of weapons smuggled through from Mexico is also astounding. I envy you your ability to not have to live in this situation.

    Araminta: the USA has always been a violent country. For decades there has been violent ethnic-cleansing in Los Angeles, children get shot playing on the street for being black in a Latino neighbourhood. East Asians are routinely targeted by street gangs. (Sometimes their own) Chinese get beaten to death in San Francisco for have the temerity to be East Asian by black gangs. The only thing that kept this mess under some sort of control into the 1960s was the dominance of the Italian Mafia. Blood and violence is bad for business. The only thing that kept my old neighbourhood in San Francisco somewhat in order was the strength of the Russian Mafia and the tacit agreement with the Chinese Mafias to co-operate when necessary for the sake of keeping business profitable.

  27. Christopher, surely the average small town family doesn’t have to face the threats you mention? If so, There is no hope.

  28. Janus: much of rural America has to deal with major drug problems. There are towns in the Midwest where hardly anyone isn’t addicted to speed. Drug labs are in many places the most stable sources of income. Entire counties in Northern California depend almost exclusively on marijuana for their economic survival.
    It’s not every town and not every place, but these problems are growing more and more severe. The main reason why so many people have guns is because it’s the only chance they have of defending themselves effectively.

Add your Comment

Please log in using one of these methods to post your comment:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s