Oh what a surprise – not!

These riots were a disaster waiting to happen. The government knew full well they were taking a gamble on the way they have treated the lowest stratum of society. Through brutal cuts in public spending they have been made to take the brunt of the financial sector’s astoundingly bad performance, yet bankers continue to pay themselves £billions in bonuses.

Meanwhile the relationship between young black people and the police deteriorates. Mark Duggan’s death is yet another in a long line (at least 333)  deaths in police custody, yet not a single police officer has been convicted for a death-in-custody incident.

Is it really any wonder these young people feel angry, disenfranchised, have nothing left to lose?

You can put the lid on a boiling pot but unless you deal with the fire underneath, you are going to get an explosion.

Author: julie_t

short story writer

146 thoughts on “Oh what a surprise – not!”

  1. Of course, Julie you are having a larf.

    Here is the official quote from the coroner Andrew Walker at the initial inquest into the shooting of Mark Duggan.

    “Can I just offer my deepest sympathies to the family of Mark Duggan”

    I would say No Mr Walker you most certainly can not.

    This criminal scum bag, (who else would be carrying a loaded firearm in broad daylight?) got killed because he was shooting at police officers. End of.

    What the hell is going on when even our own judicial machine shows sympathy for the low life, sub human animals who terrorise our society?

  2. What a fucking stupid post!
    Bloody pc left wing trendy boofhead talking through her anus.

    What’s my 93-year old Dad, one of the last off from Dunkirk, going to do when these welfare louts vandalise his home and set fire to it?

    I’ll tell you what – he’s going to die.

    Shove that up your bum, JulieT. It will be your fault when he is killed.

  3. Julie, you are talking garbage. They are criminals, no other possible explanation exists. They expect to be spoon fed by anyone who is prepared to work. I assume you are trolling here, as you cannot possibly believe what you have posted, unless you are very silly. And, for the record, there have not yet been ANY cuts, except in the one place where there should not be, i.e. defence!

  4. I am rather sick of hearing about the poor, young, disenfranchised youth whether they be black, white or green.

    There is no justification whatsoever for gangs of louts to riot, loot and beat people up. The fact that most of them have nothing is quite simply because they have done nothing to get what they think they deserve,

    I do hold Governments responsible for these riots. They have singularly failed to instil in people that if they want the goodies of modern life they must get off their bloody backsides and earn the wherewithal to buy it. And they have equally failed to teach two generations that the wages of crime is punishment… not a gentle slap on the wrist.

    I spoke to my mother tonight, 90 years of age, who will tell you about real poverty without Government backup. I concur with Bearsy’s opinion, albeit not so ‘poetically’ expressed. What’s my mother to do if her home is attacked?

    I’m angry that Governments have robbed and stolen from me by their actions and their economic policies – I’m disenfranchised – but I’m not out there stealing from those who are trying to provide for themselves.

    Save your sympathy for those people who have had their businesses wrecked, their bodies beaten up – and for the workers who will have to foot the enormous bill for the damage that this lot of shirkers have created.

  5. Those who died in custody were mostly white (75%), male (90%) and aged between 25 and 44.

    The number of deaths each year had fallen from 49 in 1998-99 to 15 in 2008-09, slightly increasing to 17 last year.

    So most of the 333 ‘deaths in custody’ since 1998 were white and occurred during the New Labour administration. So where do the brutal cuts fit into your post?

  6. What absolutely unmitigated tosh! What world are you living in?

    “To blame the cuts is immoral and cynical. This is criminality pure and simple” [Daily Mail]

  7. Death in custody

    The CPS procedures are not limited to deaths that take place in a police station or prison, but include the death of a person following contact between the police where there may be a link between the contact and the death. Fatal shootings involving police, where a police officer has fired the fatal shot, are also included in these special procedures. But deaths that arise from road traffic incidents are not.

  8. JulieT
    So let me see if I have your argument right. London is full of youths who feel let down by society and the government, they spend a lot of their time in deep discussion about the newest white paper and the fact that they are the ‘forgotten’ generation, is that about right JulieT?

    Or are they just opportunistic thugs, bums and gangsta’s who would rather destroy their own areas in the hope of getting a new pair of Nikes an a 52″ telly for auntie Vera.

    You remind me of one of the Redgrave sisters who turned up during a London dock strike to show ‘solidarity’ with her working class brothers. Within minutes she was in floods of tears and runnung away as dockers told her in no uncertain terms what they thought of her new found working class status.

    I don’t know where you live JulieT and I hope you stay out of harms way unlike many poor souls who’s lives have been ruined but I would like to be a fly on the wall if some of your benighted and downtrodden ‘brothers’ invaded your home to thieve, rob, wreck and steal whatever they could get their greedy little hands on while you stood tall and cried, ‘Brothers, surely we are all in this class struggle together, I’m JulieT and I’m on your side.’

    I guarantee that three minutes later your most prized possesions are being carted away in the back of a BMW to help fund the downtrodden lifestyle these poor kids live.

    The one good thing that may come from these criminal acts is that politicians may finally wake up and smell the burning and crack down hard on these vermin and deport any who should not be here and finally rid themselves of the do gooder, wooly minded, pc style thinking that blinds them to the obvious, Britain will only change for the better whren this particular bullet is bitten, hard.

    And nothing will change by bringing in more sports centres, yoof schemes, trips to the sun and game boys for scroates programmes that silly buggars like you propose.

  9. Oh dear, Julie! You’ve mightiIy upset The Bear and, I suspect, most other people on this site. I suppose you are one of these bleeding hearts who refer to these criminals and rioters as “protesters”.

    Here is the solution á la OZ:-

    1) Zero tolerance of criminality – there are no excuses, ever.

    2) Human Rights Act to be repealed.

    3) Riot Act to be reinstated

    4) Dawn to dusk curfew enforced by the Army.

    5) Water cannon, baton rounds, tazers, etc. to be issued.

    6) Police and Army alsatians to be employed with extreme prejudice.

    7) All offenders to be pursued to the full extent of the law

    8) All custodial sentences to be served in full.

    9) All non-British passport holders to be deported – to where I care not a jot. Helmand seems a good choice.

    10) All assets of convicted criminals to be be confiscated to reimburse the taxpayer.

    OZ

  10. Hugh,

    It’s London. What’s to enjoy?

    Mind you some real old fashioned rioting in Croydon might do several millions worth in improvements.

  11. Ferret – Your link made me think of another one

    11) Compulsory sterilisation

    Otherwise I rest my case. 😦

    OZ

  12. valzone :

    Who the Fuck is julitee? Are we talking, empty cranium, with a Croydon facelift?

    Now now Val, bad language is reserved for me and Ferret.

    However I agree wholeheartedly.

    Orpington today was in shut down mode, all the shops kept their shutters down or closed early (even Sainsbury’s). Daughter who works in a hospital in Hackney had the department closed down early and all the staff sent home, leaving the patients to sit there and do nothing rather than get on with their recuperation.

    The only people being hurt by this is the local shop keeper and his family and the local residents. Trashing a small business puts more business into the big boys (Tesco Sainsbury’s etc) as they will pick up the slack left by the small shop closing. This will raise prices and cause more problems. I wonder if it is being orchestrated by the big boys to take over the high street.

    Final quote (and racist)

    One polar bear killed in the Arctic and no one bats an eyelid
    One monkey killed in Tottenham and the country erupts

  13. Bloody funny, your comments quite cheered me up!

    JT with any luck you too may be mugged, burned out and suffer all and any depredations going from the revolting niggers you appear to love so much. Couldn’t happen to a more worthy person!

  14. Rick, I don’t normally lower myself to the likes of this author, by swearing, but every so often you come across such inane low life, who make unintelligent statements, so I allow myself a little foul mouth response. Lets face it, its the only language this author, and her ilk, understands anyway, so its best to ensure she comprehends it.

  15. O Zangado :

    Ferret – Your link made me think of another one

    11) Compulsory sterilisation

    Otherwise I rest my case. :-(

    OZ

    Not the Nine O’Clock News had a similar idea many years ago!

  16. Julie, I don’t understand how you can possibly see any link between the “deprivations” of the underclass and rich bankers.

    Secondly, as was plain from the news footage of the terrible civil disturbances in London and elsewhere, this isn’t a race or poverty issue. These horrendous rampages involve young, uneducated, unemployable, feckless criminals taking advantage of having nice Blackberry mobile phones – paid for by criminal exploits or benefits – to organise criminal smash and grab and arson mobs.

    They may have had no parenting, they may have been sucked in to a culture of gangs and violence but they have no excuses for this kind of behaviour, which shows a complete disregard for the society which provides them with housing, food, fancy trainers and phones. They have emerged from the woodwork and shown themselves in their true colours – violent, greedy and thick. They need to be dealt with rapidly and harshly to set an example to the other toe-rags in our other major cities who may think they can get away with the same tactics.

    To be honest, I’m a bit shocked by the abusive terms in which people here have expressed their views on your misguided post but I can totally see why they are outraged.

    If I were you, Julie, I would save my sympathy and sense of social injustice for the struggling shop owners who have lost their businesses -uninsured for civil disturbance – and for the elderly couples living above shops and next to shops in sink areas of London who will be cowering, terrified, in their homes tonight, fearing the worst.

    I have to say I would vote for OZ for Prime Minister if that’s his stated manifesto!! 🙂

  17. Growing up, my parents had an often unstable relationship (not violent) which meant that I would on short notice have to be uprooted from either Germany or the USA and move to the other country. My parents were often so poor, even though my father worked 3 jobs, that they could not afford more than the absolutely smallest containers of things such as vinegar because they could not pay a few extra quid for the bulk bottle. I would go to school and be jeered, have rocks thrown at me, get jumped and beaten by those who didn’t like the fact that my English skills were poor, or that my German was strange as I did not have a chance to properly learn either language until later on. I have never vandalised or stolen anything, I have never looted. My worst crime against humanity, other than perhaps my fondness of karaoke with a singing voice reminiscent of a donkey getting a cavity search, is the fact that I have two parking tickets. Oh, and I’m mixed race and a dual-citizen. My father is primarily Amerindian and Black and my mother is German, so pull yer head out of yer posterior and breath. Think, JT, if you are able to do so. If not, then why not just go tonight into the hardest hit neighbourhoods and hug a hoodie! Go ahead, ma dear, take a violent piece of scum by the hand and tell him how much you care.

  18. I am reminded of the first time I saw a good riot in the late 70’s in Memphis.
    It started with a fireman’s strike so the niggers thought it was a good idea to come uptown and burn out whitey!
    They had the National Guard and tanks in the streets in under 24 hours flat! White rednecks ‘did their duty’ and had a sufficiency of drive by shootings as a ‘return match’ so to speak.
    That bought a six week curfew, no-one but no-one for any reason on the streets after 7pm, automatically carried off to jail. (Saved us a fortune in restaurant bills but spent it on guns instead!)
    It was then that I realised how the niggers were just not really with the programme, instead of retreating to their homes, they set fire to where they lived instead and set upon each other!!!
    How daft is that?
    I abandoned any thoughts of equality forthwith.
    Seen it elsewhere since but never in the streets of the UK.
    Reaping and sowing comes to mind, big mistake treating them as equal human beings, they need a foot on the back of the neck, metaphorically at least.

    I’d just love to drop JT in deepest darkest Mississippi, be the funniest sitcom in years.
    Bet she’d have a ‘Damascene Conversion’ big time.

  19. CO: I wouldn’t expect that from Ken Livingstone in drag, some things, such as an embrace of reality, even a limited one, is too much for some people.

    I was in the Bay Area last year when there were riots in Oakland. I talked to some people I know who live there and transportation was severely affected.

  20. Thank you, everybody. I’m pleased to have drawn your attention to this important consideration.

    As to your comments, of course I don’t condone the rioters. Of course their actions are senseless, pointless, and stupid. And of course the damage they are doing is tragic, especially as they are doing it to their own neighbourhoods (they don’t even have the sense to loot Harrods!), and of course it should be stopped. It could have been avoided, and it must not happen again.

    But anyone with their eyes open could have seen it coming.

    (It was interesting to observe all the anger and aggression in your comments. I get the feeling you would all love to be down there in the streets beating the hell out of those rioters. Am I right? What good do you think that would do?)

  21. ricksrant :

    Cob I love the way you hit em hard. We have to meet over a pint of ale and chew the cud next time you slum it over here.

    Rick/Mrs O,

    Lemme know when and where because I will crawl nekkit over broken glass to be at that one. 🙂

  22. Chris, the UK has no concept whatsoever as to how bad a good riot can be, this is just a taste of things to come, they have no one to blame but themselves, endless handouts, deference to minorities, PCitis, lack of discipline etc etc.
    The whole thing is a construct of the bloody liberals like this idiot JT and equally the fault of the rest of the population letting them get away with it and buying into the guilt trip.

    Everyone has had the chance for years to vote UKIP and BNP and join the EDL and turn them all into totally legitimate political organisations but they have chosen not to.
    Perhaps this series of events will be the clarion call if not the last post to get off their arses and reclaim their own country from both the politicians and the immigrants.

    Somehow I doubt it. Most of us who would cheerfully do it have long gone, fled to more congenial climes out of total disgust.

  23. Please, cherished colleagues, think of the effect all these government cuts must have had on all the drug dealers and their sleazy street corner business. People losing their jobs can no longer afford the coke or heroin. Life is tough! How else to get a pair of upmarket trainers if you don’t steal them? (Who wants to wear trainers all the time, anyway?) And then think of the effect such drugs have on the brain and wonder about the author. It’s the only excuse.

  24. JanH, there is a strong link between the “deprivations” of the underclass and rich bankers.

    If the banks had been made to pay back their bail-outs before paying themselves huge bonuses, and if the Government had met its deficit by taxing the rich, i.e. the bankers who caused the crisis in the first place, they would not have had to cut public spending at all. Moreover, they could have had extra money to invest in jobs, education, and myriad other things to close the gap between the obscenely rich and the desperately poor. If they had, these riots would most likely not have happened, nor the chaos that has blighted the financial markets today.

  25. Julie.

    One would have hoped for a rather more rational discussion of the subject but apparently not.

    Respect for the opinion of others has been drummed into me from a very early age. I feel no need to abuse others in putting forward my views. So, I agree with Jan, I feel disappointed that some on this thread felt the need to couch their disagreement in such abusive terms.

    Respect for authority and the rule of law seems to missing with respect to these riots but equally, the response to your attempt to understand the underlying issues seems to have been treated with the same sort of contempt.

    As it happens, I don’t entirely agree with your conclusions, I’m more inclined to stop this outrageous behaviour first, and then ask questions later. Whatever the reasons, it must be stopped. There is no excuse, but there may well be reasons, and we should question why this has occurred.

  26. janh1 :

    I have to say I would vote for OZ for Prime Minister if that’s his stated manifesto!! :-)

    That is my stated manifesto, Jan. I also think they should free immediately all my like-minded, captive brothers and sisters from the zoos. It is terribly hard for an oxygen thief to concentrate on that 42 inch plasma in Curry’s when you’ve got a hungry wolf gripping your nethers. 🙂

    FEEG – Well remembered! Plus ça change…., or something like that 😀

    Ferret #32 – If they don’t let me know I shall be more than a little miffed.

    OZ

  27. Thank you, Araminta. It is refreshing to find an intelligent blogger on this site. The others are abusive because they feel threatened by my challenge to their blinkered views.

  28. Oh Puhleeeeeeeze!

    Minty MBE, you are way off on this one.

    There can be no excuse for the attitude of these looters. Look at the beeb link I posted.

    Wishy washy liberal thinking like this posters is exactly the rot which allowed these scum to get away with the shit they already have. There is a reason I and several others have reacted so strongly to the silly opinions of JT. Ordinary, law abiding people are in real danger as a result of these criminal acts. Livlihoods have been wrecked and essential cover has been diverted to deal with the vandalism caused by the hoodlums. To try and defend their actions is complicity IMHO and unforgiveable.

    Talking time is over, its time to clean the gutters of this offensive tripe.

    You are right about one thing, this stops now by whatever means necessary. We can deal with the whys later and with none of JulieTs ridiculous empathy.

    Yes the bankers are scum but two wrongs don’t make a right.

  29. julietee :

    Thank you, Araminta. It is refreshing to find an intelligent blogger on this site. The others are abusive because they feel threatened by my challenge to their blinkered views.

    So anyone who disagrees with you is unintelligent, then. Typical liberal leftie!

  30. Julie T has already shown herself to be an airhead and Araminta has to go into tinkling teacups in Tunbridge mode.

    Gangs of feral juveniles looting and burning are the result of exactly the kind of chatterati psychobabble that we see in JulieT’s post and Araminta’s comment. Rest your heads tonight ladies in the comforting knowledge that it’s your fault.

    This lady had it right – reminds me of my great gran – watch and learn Araminta and JulieT:

  31. FEEG.

    I disagreed with Julie actually: I said I didn’t entirely agree with her, but I don’t think her opinion deserved some of the responses hereon.

  32. Like I said Minty MBE,

    Yes they did. To try and excuse this life threatening behaviour with any kind of lefty babble is incomprehensible. These idiots are actually having fun, they consider it to be a blast. They have absolutely no consideration for the people they are hurting or the property they destroy. Selfish, mindless vandalism with absolutely no cause. Any fool who trys to reason this away is just as bad as they are.

    Once the dust settles and we have all these vandals behind bars, I hope they then go after the PC morons who encouraged the whole nonsense from the start.

  33. julietee :

    There is a strong link between the “deprivations” of the underclass and rich bankers.

    If the banks had been made to pay back their bail-outs before paying themselves huge bonuses, and if the Government had met its deficit by taxing the rich, i.e. the bankers who caused the crisis in the first place, they would not have had to cut public spending at all.

    Where is the evidence of this link?
    There may well be a link between a disaffected ‘poor underclass’ and a rich class (bankers or otherwise), but are you suggesting that the recent events can be laid entirely on the current administration?
    Which political party do you think has the solution to this?

  34. OZ you’ve got my vote 🙂 And that’s a very satisfying image you’ve conjured up. It’s almost a computer game Grand Theft v. Wolfie!

    Julie, yes I understand your explanation but it’s too full of “ifs” to be convincing, I’m afraid.

    Comparatively few people in modern Britain are “desperately poor.” The “desperately poor” are mostly in Africa where they have next to nothing and their babies starve. Here, we have an underclass of unemployable people who have plasma TV sets, with Sky sports; they drink, smoke, take drugs and live off takeaways. What they *do* lack is any kind of stable family life or the will to ever be a part of respectable, working, tax-paying society.

  35. Don’t disagree with you , Furry.

    I’m not trying to reason with them, I want to stop them.

    BUT, I would like to explore the reasons why this has happened in order to stop it happening again.

    That’s all.

    My only other reason for being on this thread at all, is to express by support for Julie; it’s not that I agree with her conclusions but she has a right to her opinions and she is correct, in my opinion to question why this has happened.

  36. But Araminta – she isn’t questioning ‘why it happened’. Julie has ‘opined why it happened’ and introduced statistical support in quite a disingenuous way.

  37. Kindly note how I am reasoning with you, but have nothing but utter contempt for the ridiculous opinion of this champaigne socialist.

    I have installed top of the range sattelite tv packages in the hovels of these so called deprived poor. I have seen the x-boxes, computers, playstations, smartphones and flatscreen tvs that these poor unfortunate, futureless, forgotten victims own. I ask again, did you listen to the Beeb link I posted at #16?

  38. Furry, and Peter.

    We all “opine” and we expect to be challenged.

    No problem.

    Disagree by all means but I’m objecting to the abusive way some of these disagreements are expressed.
    I’m not excusing the rioters, and I think I have made that quite clear.

  39. Furry.

    I know you are reasoning with me, and I have watched a great deal of the coverage and I did follow your link.
    I’m not disagreeing with you.

    It’s not my post, and you don’t need to convince me. There is obviously a reason, not an excuse, I am aware of the difference, why these people behave in such a way. Stop them first, and then it may be appropriate to ask ourselves why, if only to stop it happening again.

    I doubt there is much point in asking the perpetrators for their reasons, but listening to them may give us some sort of insight. Doesn’t in any way excuse their behaviour, but any clues as to how we can prevent it happening again may be useful.

  40. Araminta’s sneer of “Highly intellectual stuff” in comment #48 epitomises her arrogant disconnection from the realities of life.

    Rather than debate the issue, she prefers to criticise the language in which Charioteers have demolished JulieT’s unthinking parroting of left-wing doctrine – exactly the doctrine that has given rise to the crimes currently being perpetrated on the streets of British cities.

    Of course she insists that JulieT “has a right to her opinions” – so she does, and other Charioteers have an equal right to demolish them.

    As far as JulieT’s remark ” It is refreshing to find an intelligent blogger on this site” is concerned, she has ignored every point made here by bloggers who don’t agree with her, in typical pc fashion, and does not appear to recognise that she is only allowed to blog here at Boadicea’s pleasure. Only left-wing numpties like JulieT and Araminta can be so ignorant and ill-behaved as to imagine that the reasonable thing to do to your hostess is to insult her.

    Araminta should learn that she does not control The Chariot, and that her disdainful opinions and supercilious pronouncements carry no weight here; they evoke only contempt.

  41. Araminta :

    FEEG.

    I disagreed with Julie actually: I said I didn’t entirely agree with her, but I don’t think her opinion deserved some of the responses hereon.

    Sorry Minty, if I was not clear. I was addressing JulieT. Actually, I think her opinions are very dangerous, and people like her have led us into the mire we are in today.

  42. No problem, FFEG.

    Thanks for the clarification. Opinions are just that, and I rarely feel that opinions expressed on forums are dangerous as such, but I understand your point of view.

  43. the reason we are in this ridiculous state of affairs has nothing to do with “Rich bankers” if not for the rich bankers the country would have collapsed years ago, the money they earn goes to pay these layabout’s benefit money and keeps the country rich. The problem of the collapse occurred because politicians all over the world began insisting the banks made loans to people that could never pay it back.

    The other reason for these people running riot is the police are damned if they go in hard because if they so much as graze a protesters knee they are suspended from duty or sacked or called racists.

    The parents of these kids are to blame as well for not knowing where their kids are of an evening or how come they came home with a TV.

    But in fairness to parents if they hit their kids social services are called, same in the schools if a teacher looks at a kid wrong they are suspended.

    Law and order broke down under Blair and Brown as did the economy, and now it may be too late to recover.

  44. Thank you, Bearsy.

    I always value your opinion, that goes without saying, but I do feel strangely reluctant to agree with much of what you say these days.

    I do feel however that controlling the Chariot is not something I’d aspire to, although it is odd that you think I should. Far too much like hard work with very little reward, but someone has to do it, and I’m pleased Boadicea and your good self have undertaken this task.

    We are all very grateful.

  45. Araminta :

    Far too much like hard work with very little reward, but someone has to do it, and I’m pleased Boadicea and your good self have undertaken this task.

    We are all very grateful.

  46. Such an arrogant comment and one which we have all come to expect from you. Why you are still here continues to amaze. Possibly, because you are not welcome anywhere else?

  47. Who cares Araminta. You are rather like Sinatra in your number of ‘Comebacks’ normally, for someone who you consider to be some sort of liberal underdog. As for your comment “but someone has to do it” it is both ignorant, arrogant and condescending. No one has to do anything. Those of us who actually enjoy this site, really don’t need your snide comments and your arrogant assumption that “we are all very grateful”.

  48. Well, I actually do care, Tocino. I have supported this site from the beginning, as you have.

    I will continue to do so, if I am welcome, time permitting.

    If Boadicea thinks my contributions are not welcome, I will, of course, abide by her decision.

  49. Araminta :

    Oh, Tocino.

    So would you prefer I did not contribute further to this site?

    You are asking the wrong person. Stay or go, I couldn’t care a less.

  50. Okay, okay. Calm down everyone. Araminta, if we read what she wrote, had a point. JT might be nothing but a champaign socialist snob, and she was treated properly for it, but we have to keep in consideration that she still has the right to be as she is. It was my right to demolish her, and it was Araminta’s right to agree to disagree with her. I’ve come to know Araminta well enough to know that the accusations against her are simply not true.

  51. Accepted Christopher – but it was not very constructive of JulieT to dismiss all counter-arguments as “unintelligent”, nor was it Araminta’s place to criticise us for the manner in which we expressed our disagreement.

    The Chariot has more academic and business qualifications and experience per square inch than a dog has fleas, so highfalutin lectures by vacuous socialist totty are, shall we say, misplaced.

  52. Bearsy
    About as welcome as a visit from the proctologist!
    And about as full of the same.

  53. Bearsy: I know JT’s type very, very well. I would feel contempt for them, but they’re simply too vacuous and unworthy of the energy to merit it. In fact, I have spent the past year living in San Francisco, a crumbling and sleazy city full of the type, and will be stuck there for another 10 months or so. Perhaps I should write a book about the wonders of champaign socialists and how open minded and accepting they are, of things they agree with. Araminta’s comment which leaned in favour of JT’s pearl of wisdom was perhaps misplaced, however.

  54. It seems to be to be quite natural that people express their opinions quite forcibly. Various Governments over the last forty years or more have allowed the bleeding hearts with their tear-sodden handkerchiefs to set the agenda for dealing with anti-social behaviour, while those who have to live with and suffer from the criminal behaviour of others have been totally ignored.

    We are shouting because no one is listening. Not one of the arguments here has been addressed – they have all been dismissed as being ‘unintelligent’. The video of the coloured woman’s rant was dismissed simply because she used language that is not acceptable in the parlour – but would most certainly be intelligible to those running riot around her.

    The wishy-washy attitude to crime has patently not worked – it is time for the bleeding hearts to admit that their approach has failed and to stop making excuses for anti-social and criminal behaviour.

  55. Bearsy: in the mean time, I plan to write a post here about it. Since I have only a few weeks left in my quiet, and pleasantly conservative, rural retreat I can get some of the stress off my chest.

  56. christopher, Araminta, as is her wont, wilfully or otherwise, missed the point completely. Nobody is saying that JulieT has no right to be a ditsy airhead, but merely giving deserved short shrift to the vacuous repetition of what poses for thought amongst the soi-disant socialists and is in fact nothing but mumblings of the mantras of voodoo-science sociology.

    Meanwhile, she fails to understand what is actually going on right under her nose, so dismisses it, much in the way of Gordon Brown, with her oh-tres sophistiquee (pretentieuse?) ‘very intelligent…’

  57. If I put up a post saying that akshully the Nazis were merely misunderstood and the Red Sea pedestrians need to get over it, sit in a quiet corner and think about what they did to deserve it, I would expect a few choice expletives hurled in my direction.

    Ergo this idiot woman gets told in no uncertain terms exactly how insulting her ridiculous remarks are.

  58. Not only ridiculous, but condescending, paternalistic and proto-racist in the way that much of the cant of the politically correct so often is.

  59. Boadicea.

    Just for the record
    I didn’t dismiss the coloured woman’s rant at all. I said she most certainly had a point.My comment no 48 was a response to the text in Bravo’s comment. I hadn’t actually watched the video clip when I responded. Didn’t shock me at all. I actually used to visit Tottenham reasonably regularly about ten years ago. No 2 daughter and friends shared a house there while she was at university.

  60. Thank you for your enduring support, Araminta. As I said, those insulting me feel threatened because I have invited them to reconsider their blinkered views. I have made some discomforting suggestions.

    We do not make excuses for the rioters, but of course there are reasons for their behaviour. Everything in the universe has cause and effect. There is no point in arguing with anyone who refuses to accept that.

  61. I would not dream of speaking for my colleagues, nor of using the royal “we”, but I can assure you, JulieT, that I feel not the least threatened by your repetition of the same old, same old, tired and debunked socialist mantras.

    Ascribing effect to a non-related cause is generally described as sophistry – if one is feeling kind – and as illogical idiocy, if one isn’t.

    You have not argued – or debated – you have pronounced. You are unworthy of your membership of The Chariot, but fortunately Boadicea has an abundance of what you lack – compassion for the challenged.

    Go hug a hoodie.

  62. I’m not pinning my colours to any mast, as it happens, Furry One. Merely expressing an opinion.

    But I do feel as I said earlier, I’m much more interested in the ending of this senseless mayhem than apportioning blame. No doubt there will be much of the latter going on in due course.

    Meanwhile people are being murdered and their livelihoods and homes are threatened. It seems more and more to me at least, that it mindless thuggery and they are being allowed to continue, I cannot see what statement they are trying to make, other than they can do it and get away with it. I reserve my utter disgust and outrage for the perpetrators, not for those who seek reasons for such behaviour.

  63. JanH, it is true that no-one in Britain is extrememly poor in the way that many Africans are.
    I meant ‘desperately’ more in the literal sense, that they are in despair.
    In Tottenham there is one vacancy for every 54 jobseekers. Further education for them is now financially out of reach.
    They have no hope of belonging to the affluent society that consistently dangles itself in front of them. Everywhere, they are lured by consumer goods they cannot legitimately afford. Of course they are going to get frustrated.
    And what incentive do they have to contain their anger? You can’t keep telling people they are surplus to requirements and still expect them to support the status quo.

  64. True Minty MBE,

    My utter contempt lies squarely with the looters, vandals, arsonists and murderers, but also in there is a compartment for any lowlife who tries to make idiotic excuses for their criminal behaviour.

    Or does “Is it really any wonder these young people feel angry, disenfranchised, have nothing left to lose?” mean something else?

    WE do not make excuses for them, and WE do not afford this scum the label of “rioters”. Julie T however does both.

  65. Peter Barnett, I didn’t mention the colour of those who died in custody, but as you did, let me shed light on a misleading statistic you quoted.

    You say 75% of those were white. I’ll take your word for it. So 25% were non-white.
    However 92 % of UK’s population is white, 8% non-white.

    This means that if you are not white you are more than three times as likely to die in custody as a white person.

  66. julietee :

    Thank you for your enduring support, Araminta. As I said, those insulting me feel threatened because I have invited them to reconsider their blinkered views. I have made some discomforting suggestions.

    Hi, julieT

    I don’t usually bother to contribute to this sort of thread but I will when given what I see as sufficient provocation. Count me in on the side of what, by inference, you allege to be the unintelligent bloggers hereon (ie everybody but Ara).

    In your original post you do not, in my opinion, make ‘discomforting suggestions’. What you do make are unsupported assertions. Those assertions were challenged by others, admittedly in robust language in some cases, but you have made no attempt to counter their arguments other than to describe their views as blinkered. PB in particular has asked you to justify those assertions and you are making no attempt at all to do that. All you keep saying is is that our views are blinkered.

    I am, like you, an atheist, Actually an agnostic because I am never sure, unlike you appear to be, that I am right about anything. Still remember the Bible from my Sunday School days. In respect of saying that other people have blinkered views. I refer you to Matthew Chapter 7 verses 1-5.

    1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

    2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured unto you.

    3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

    4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me cast out the mote out of thine eye; and lo, the beam is in thine own eye?

    5 Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

  67. JT: please, go follow your own advice. Hug a hoodie! Go out and talk to the scum, then. Go! Without haste! Go into the throngs, take them by the hand, and ask them why they’re unhappy. Tell them that you care, then. Don’t preach from relative safety and comfort, actually make good on your word and your ideas. Otherwise, you will look like nothing more than just another self-important prattler.

  68. Bearsy, you say I lack compassion for the challenged. Really? Which ‘challenged’ do you mean I wonder?

    If Boadicae decided to banish me, it will be evidence that she prefers to shy away from healthy debate.

  69. christophertrier :

    JT: please, go follow your own advice. Hug a hoodie! Go out and talk to the scum, then. Go! Without haste! Go into the throngs, take them by the hand, and ask them why they’re unhappy. Tell them that you care, then. Don’t preach from relative safety and comfort, actually make good on your word and your ideas. Otherwise, you will look like nothing more than just another self-important prattler.

    The UK is so bloody PC that many get away with crimes they should be punished with, race has nothing to do with it anymore. It’s not 1960, not even 1980. The USA has seen what your ideas do, now the UK sees what your ideas do. Don’t blame the culprits, blame society and not stand up for right or wrong. Cede ground to the lowest of denominators in self-congratulating “fairness” and “understanding”. It doesn’t lead to anything BUT disaster. So, yes, live by your own mantra instead of prancing around like a hypocritical champaign socialist peacock.

  70. As I said, those insulting me feel threatened because I have invited them to reconsider their blinkered views. I have made some discomforting suggestions.

    What utter arrogance. Not only do you presume to tell us that a bunch of murdering, thieving hooligans are merely ‘a poor, repressed, disenfranchised under-class’, but you have the audacity to tell those who disagree with you that the reason we disagree is that we feel threatened and have blinkered views.

    When, and only when, you have walked in my shoes for a million miles might you even begin to understand why I hold the opinions that I do… and even then I would expect you to have the courtesy to acknowledge that my views and opinions are as valid as yours and are based on my experiences. If there is one thing sure to get me angry it is people who presume to tell me why I act the way I do. .

    I wouldn’t mind betting that many Charioteers started life with some of the starry-eyed ideals that you espouse – but we have grown up and have had to face the realities of life – and the reality is that there are some humans will be ‘murdering, thieving hooligans’ with no ethics and no morals – and that the rest of the world is NOT responsible for turning them into thoroughly nasty individuals.

    You and your ilk are a threat – a threat to the stability of society. I’ve just watched a young Asian shop-keeper in the UK in tears – his shop has been demolished and there is no insurance for damage in civil unrest. Where is your compassion for the likes of him?

  71. JulieT @ #98
    The victims dear. Like that poor old Asian guy I’ve just seen crying on ABC News because his business has been ruined, his livelihood taken away by mindless thugs. The victims.

  72. John M, Ok, I won’t judge my fellow bloggers (and I hope they won’t judge me). I won’t declare them blinkered. It seemed to me that they are, because they refuse to look at the possible reasons behind the disturbance. I find it unproductive to argue with people who won’t consider the possibilities.

    Christopher, I have no desire to hug a hoodie. I would gladly listen to them. I suspect most of them couldn’t articulate their frustration usefully. That doesn’t invalidate it.

  73. I have plenty of compassion for the victims. The rioting is mindless, senseles and stupid, and it must be stopped. It must not happen again. It should never have happened in the first place. I have said this already and nothing I have said contradicts this.

  74. Julie

    I have never banished anyone from this site.

    I do not shy away from debate. However, I tend to think that a debate consists of a discussion of opinions based on facts rather than mere assertions. I also prefer to debate issues with people who have lived in the real world rather than in a fantasy world as they would like it to be.

    You really should go and hug a hoodie… or at least try to get to know some of them. You would almost certainly learn that you have no more insight into why they behave the way they do than you have into the way people, like me who disagree with you, think the way we do.

  75. Julie.

    I hope you don’t seriously feel that I’m the only intelligent blogger on this site, because I think we may have a difference of opinion on this issue!

    I think exchanges of opinion are interesting and sometimes informative, but I do not comment here in order to change people’s opinions dramatically. I do it to express my viewpoint, but not with any real intention or hope that it will influence theirs.

  76. Thanks, Boadicae.

    And thank you, everybody, for taking my post seriously. I hope riots like these never happen again. I hope we can find a way for everyone to live happily together.

  77. Just seen your post, Araminta. We can’t hope to change people’s opinions dramatically, but we can hope that by sharing our ideas, they develop, hopefully for the better. Otherwise, what would be the point in discussing anything?

  78. This is all becoming far too civilised now with mega backtracking. I really thought that ‘Boadicea’s Chariot’ had definitely found its very own Lady Gaga. Oh well, it was fun whilst it lasted. 🙂

  79. JulieT said:

    “And thank you, everybody, for taking my post seriously.”

    Please do not suggest this, for me to take your post seriously would give it a credence it does not deserve.

    It’s just that I’ve had enough now, I’ve had enough of the liberal, pc, claptrap spouting classes, I really have.

    You and your ilk have ruined this country and your crackpot ideas have born fruit all over the streets of London and other cities. For too long you have held sway and turned common sense on its head, for too long we have had to sit here and take the crap that issues from your misguided little minds and for too long we have sat on our a*ses and let you get away with it.

    Well, have the scales fallen from your eyes yet JulieT, are you proud of what you and your sort have done? Look around, see the fear in the eyes of ordinary folk who wonder if one of your poor working class ‘victims’ will pay them a visit tonight as the police struggle to fight them with their hands tied with the shackles of pc that YOU have put there. For God’s sake someone go and beat on Drake’s Drum.

  80. OMG

    That is one beautiful comment. Thank you for expressing what I think so eloquently.

  81. OMG,

    Save your breath, there are none so blind yadda yadda.

    You are of course totally right. I note with great cynicism Cambuffoons statement that the police will be given full support and the legal backing to employ whatever methods they deem necessary to regain control of the streets.

    ‘If you are old enough to commit these crimes then you are old enough to face the punishment.’ Yeah right boy David.

    Watch what happens the very first time one of these ‘minors’ suffers so much as a paper cut as a result of detainment.

  82. Take this post seriously? I quote:

    Mark Duggan’s death is yet another in a long line (at least 333) deaths in police custody,…

    The slimeball in question was not in police custody, he was in a minicab.
    He was armed.
    There was another slimeball in the minicab.
    He too was armed.
    The slimeball in question was a drug dealer with a form sheet as long as your arm.

    Next…

  83. But what do we do? I feel so frustrated, I’m normally a pretty level headed sort of bloke but these past few days have seen me rant and rave at the bloody politicians who seemed trapped in some fantasy world by saying things like ‘robust policing,’ ‘full force of the law,’ ‘whatever it takes,’ etc etc. Don’t tell me what you are going to do, tell me what you have DONE. The people of Britain knows what should be done, so either do the business or get off the pot and make way for someone who can.
    And as I’ve just typed this I realise…..there is no one, not with the particular crop of losers we are saddled with at the moment. Perhaps we need a leader to come from a non party political background, someone who knows how to lead and inspire confidence, someone who is not shackled by a slavish devotion to the Human rights act and someone who is not shackled by political correctness, any ideas?

  84. zenrules :

    Boris J has long been my choice; at least he had a successful career before politics.

    And he doesn’t seem to have a problem with seeing and saying ‘it’ as he sees and as the problem is.

  85. I have just come home after a long shift and read this blog from start to finish. Thank you all for your comments, it has cheered me up no end to see that you all, with one exception, see the events for what they are.

    There’s no “excuse or reasons” JulieT. They’re criminals, nothing more, nothing less. They don’t have grievances, there’s no politics here. They don’t even know what politics is with a small p or a capital P!

    I don’t want any hand wringing afterwards to find out why…..because that just justifies their actions! Ludicrous. If they can’t handle the lack of opportunity in a London Borough, tell them to get off their arses onto a bike and go find a job somewhere else! Take some responsibility!

    As for 333 deaths in police custody and your further remarks about percentages of ethnicity…..look at the stories behind the facts rather than the statistic and you may get a picture that explains itself somewhat clearer. If you looked at the equivalent statistics in ANY other western country, never mind Arabic, 2nd and 3rd world or communist, and you will see far far worse. Lies, damn lies and statistics. Stop believing the left wing trash without looking at it for yourself.

    As for the police commanders…..terrible, and hamstrung. Mainly due to the outpouring by the very public they’re trying to protect a few years ago. The UK now has the police Force/Service it deserves…unfortunately.

  86. So it seems The Chariot has its own Polly Toynbee. I never read anything she writes – it’s not worth it and bad for the blood pressure. So I shall now do the same here. It’s impossible to debate with someone who does not have the intellectual bandwidth to do so and simply comes out with the standard Toynbee lexicon of “racist/fascist/blinkered” for one side and “misunderstood/deprived/uneducated” for the other instead of trying to formulate an argument. This is what the liberal left loonies have done for years – shut down any disagreement with their usual name-calling. And of course characters like Livingston are still doing it because they cannot think about cause and effect.

  87. Cuprum

    I’m delighted to see your comment here and pleased that you have found some cheer from most of the charioteers!

  88. Bearsy :

    Exhume Winnie?

    Winnie Mandela is not dead yet, and while I strongly disapprove of her politics, do you really have any sympathy with her methods of dealing with those she does not like? “With our boxes of matches and our necklaces we shall liberate this country”.

    Ok, ok, I know you meant the other Winnie.

  89. It seemed to me that they are [blinkered], because they refuse to look at the possible reasons behind the disturbance.

    Totally wrong! It is because they have looked at the real reasons for the riots and come to rather different conclusions to your politically correct ones that they disagree to violently with you. As I said, people who hold opinions like yours and act on them are a huge threat to this country.

  90. Polly Toynbee? Thank you, Sheona. I’m flattered. She is a highly-acclaimed journalist.

    Many of you ranters, sorry bloggers, are sounding alarmingly like that mass-murderer in Norway.

  91. Last night on TV the old Sikh in Southall summed it up with exactly the right attitude he said “We British must stand together to stop these looters” or words to that effect.
    He was an old Indian guy who has lived here for a long time and though he wears a turban he sees himself as British.

    Pity more don’t feel the same.

    Then there are the others that say they are Caribbean because their grandparents or great grandparents came over in the 50’s, how are they Caribbean they are third or fourth generation so they are British. I have a Greek mother and English father but consider myself to be British, yet am less so than these so called Caribbeans.

  92. julietee :

    Many of you ranters, sorry bloggers, are sounding alarmingly like that mass-murderer in Norway.

    Whilst you Lady Gaga are not of the real world. Not only that, you rude and insulting and couldn’t debate your way out of a wet paper bag.

  93. julietee :

    Polly Toynbee? Thank you, Sheona. I’m flattered. She is a highly-acclaimed journalist.

    Many of you ranters, sorry bloggers, are sounding alarmingly like that mass-murderer in Norway.

    She is only acclaimed by Guardianistas! In fact, she is an insufferable, politically correct hypocrite, claiming that hoi polloi should not be allowed to fly in order to save the planet while she jets off to her villa in Tuscany for a large part of the year! BTW, she also talks drivel! And how DARE you compare all sensible bloggers to that Norwegian loony. You can always tell when a socialist is losing the argument, they start resorting to gratuitous insult..

  94. Not only that, Toc, our resident ditsy airhead is of the chatterati ilk that constructs a flawed argument and builds her house of cards on that. Since this is exactly the excuse for actual thought that has permeated the establishment for the last three decades, it is easy to discern the actual roots of the current malaise in our society as opposed to the vacuous posturings that pass for debate amongst our supposed leaders.

    Here’s an online dictionary so you can look up the long words, Julie:

    http://www.enchantedlearning.com/Dictionary.html (Little Explorer’s Picture Dictionary.)

  95. LOL, Bravo.

    OK, I take it back about the mass murderer. I did think some of you might be pleased by the comparison. If not, I am relieved.

  96. JT: why are you still on your computer? Why aren’t you out looking for hoodies to hug and tell how much you care about them? And why haven’t you opened up your home to them and sacrificed everything you have to make their lives better? Alternately, you could just move to Berkeley. You’d fit right in there.

  97. No, no, no, Christopher! You fail to understand that metropolitan lefties such as JT expect everyone else (in fact, anyone else) to open up their homes and sacrifice everything they have to make their [street scum’s] lives better. 🙂

    Think Bono and Africa or a ‘testimonial’ football match for a footballer on £150,000 a week.

    Maybe JT would like to donate her computer to a passing criminal.

    OZ

  98. OZ: I spend most of my time in San Francisco, a city which is 90pc metropolitan lefty. They cannot balance a budget, keep order in the streets, prevent mass vandalism and trashing of the city, but ARE able to debate regulations including the banning of selling gold fish, banning water beds, and legally barring my from having ceiling decorations. This is, of course, difficult for me as I grew up with having ceiling decorations — it’s very common in Germany, where is the respect for my culture and heritage? Oh, wait, Germany isn’t a third world pest hole, never mind.

  99. FFS you lot,

    Can’t you see a Hemmit when it is spitting bullshit in your face?

    Ignore the fool, she/he is a complete wind up merchant.

  100. “Where is the respect for my culture and heritage?”

    No, no, no, Christopher! You fail to understand that metropolitan lefties such as JT have decreed that multiculturalism and ‘yooman rites’ is a one-way street and it ain’t flowing from the indigenous populations of Germany and Britain. 🙂

    However, the tide is turning. People in Manchester have, for example, organised (albeit via MyFace, Spacebook, Twatter or whatsoever) a clean up of the damage inflicted by the urban scum and even on the BBC this morning a Labour MP for an inner London constituency was talking about the need for curfews. I suspect those who make a living from the race relations and multicultural ‘industries’ have noticed the shift in public opinion and are terrified that their agendas have suddenly been made much more problematic.

    OZ

  101. Yes, Ferret, I know. ‘Emmett hasn’t been heard from on the Dark side for nearly two months. I nearly wrote (but didn’t) earlier this evening that perhaps JT was an alter ego. 🙂

    OZ

  102. Ferret: if it is a parody, than treat it like a parody.

    OZ: yes, of course they’re right, too! What point is there celebrating a clean and well-ordered country like Germany where people go to work and make good things? That’s just an evil, old imperial white thing that should be discouraged. What we really need to do is celebrate the fiery, spicy ways of MS-13, al Qaeda, and the various African gangs running around The UK and Europe’s cities. They are just bringing excitement to out stale, nasty old societies.

    I, for one, am glad that the multicultural and race relations industries are dying. They do not serve any good at all. If you ever get a chance to read Dr Thomas Sowell’s writings on race and race relations, I would highly recommend it. He’s spot on.

  103. Ferret, old bean – JT is not a windup merchant like Hemmet. She actually believes the tripe that she writes.

    Very dangerous, particularly when our weaker-minded and gullible sisters are seduced into supporting such rubbish.

  104. Oi, Julie! Instead of the Grauniad you should read the front page of the DT this morning where it is reported that some of the scrotes who trashed our cities are appearing in court. Said scrotes include students, a businessman’s daughter, a teaching assistant and an 11-year-old boy – hardly your profile of oppressed and desperate people fighting ‘the cuts’.

    Now, as long as the magistrates and judges are on my side of the political divide rather than yours then justice may yet be done. I have my doubts about this though as I suspect most of them are as out of touch with mainstream public concerns as you are and this makes my fur frizzy. Everyone here knows how much I hate frizzy fur and I am in a seriously bad mood now, so, JulieT, for your liberal, wishy-washy, apologist thinking you are hereby awarded the first heartfelt

    that I have ever given on The Chariot.

    OZ

  105. I do not claim that she is Hemmitt I said she is A hemmitt and a very poor one at that.

    Why don’t we round them all up and put them on riot patrol? They can talk to the looting scum over a cup of camomile and mung bean tea and get to the root of their angst.

  106. Comparing anyone to Polly Toynbee is an insult. Do you perhaps have the villa in Chiantishire too, JT, as well as your urge to tell us all that you know best? Is hypocrisy catching?

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