What is society?

Epitaph for the eighties?  ‘there is no such thing as society’

I think we’ve been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it’s the government’s job to cope with it. ‘I have a problem, I’ll get a grant.’ ‘I’m homeless, the government must house me.’ They’re casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It’s our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There’s no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation.

Margaret Thatcher

Love her or hate her, but in this instance she does have a point. What is society?  My thanks to Amicus for  posing this question.

90 thoughts on “What is society?”

  1. as in ‘the breakdown of society’ which she had a huge hand in with her skewered dirty morality and in creating the monster that is our selfish, money-grabbing, looking after number one accepted way of life. I’m not going on and I shan’t come back to this one because it’ll be bad for my health.

  2. Ah, well, I know you don’t have a high opinion of the Iron Lady, Isobel, so thanks for venturing in and commenting. Certainly society, as we know it seems to have as you say “broken” but how long has this been going on? I actually detested Thatcher, I used to cringe every time she appeared on television but in retrospect some of her policies made sense. I don’t want to endanger your health, so please do not feel you have comment further.

  3. Ara; yes, up to a point. But there are whole swathes of the north west of England that are wastelands, far worse than what you see in programmes like Little Britain and Shameless. Why? Well I put it down to the closure of the mines, the steelworks, the Liverpool docks and the demise of British manufacturing industries, rather than the fault of individuals…But as to what any of us mere mortals are actually supposed to do about it; well, your guess is as good as mine.

  4. Society is the where you live, the collective identity of others around you and you to them and although we are individual we are as one in the hive. It’s what we look at each night on the news and read about each day in the papers. It’s what we feel when we go down the hight street and if we live in a nice place we may pop into John Lewis and take cake and coffee and feel happy with our society because we are surrounded by our own image. If however you live in a rat infested, boarded up, top of the job seekers allowance board sh*thouse of a town then you are not happy because your society is broken, you know this because dave and gordo keep telling you this. So society exists in your mind and the happier you are, the nicer your society is.

  5. Hello Claire: yes, and she is hated by many for doing these things, and understandably so. Just to put another viewpoint which does not take into account the damage she inflicted on these industries, one could say, that in fact, those industries today could not compete with the emerging industrial giants; India and China for example we need to look to basing our economy along different lines.

  6. I was referring to the novel Miserables, Araminta.
    I dislike this black&white approaches. In both ends. There is truth in what she says. As you may find some truth in the opposite end, socialism. Black & white.

    There will be no society if you force individuality like she does. It eventually kills morals, being totally selfish.

    Back to the npvel, I wonder if she would think in the same way, if she lived part of her life being an “unfortunate”.

    A human being has needs that’s why we can’t live alone.

  7. OMG: how true but one could accuse you of being somewhat complacent in your nice cosy environment. I wouldn’t because I think you are right. It’s what you make of it, and not what others tell you how it is.

    Big but, however, life is not very splendid for some, due to lack of education, opportunities or economics. We do as a society need to take this into account. Some people rightly deserve help; some don’t.

  8. Thanks Levent: yes, as you may see from my comments, so do I dislike this approach. I think Mrs Thatcher made some relevant points, but there has to be a balance. It’s all very well advocating personal responsibility but a mark of any civilised society is to at least provide a safety net for those who cannot for whatever reason fend for themselves.

  9. Araminta
    I’ll have to sleep on this one, it’s to easy to give a knee jerk reaction so I’m up the wooden hill to blanket street.

  10. Night to you OMG: yes, it is not so straight forward perhaps. I am not sure of my stance either; hence it is a discussion point.

  11. Has society actually broken or taken on a new garb, we tend to think of society as something intimate for instance me and mine. However modernisation has put paid to that so with the advent of instant communication and faster travel society has been forced to adapt to a world wide theme. One of the results has been the shift towards individualism yet as Durkheim suggests society is more than the sum of its parts and that it possesses a reality of its own, over and above the individuals that comprise it. This reality is based on social facts such as belief systems, customs, institutions etc so regardless of how much one may lean towards individualism there are constraints put on us by these social facts that keep us on the inside and continues to shape our lives.

  12. Hello Kevmart and welcome. 🙂
    Do you equate modernisation with globalisation? Society in this context can become a little blurred and one reaction, as you say, is to balance this with more emphasis on the individual. Is this another word for selfishness, perhaps? And is it not one of the functions of society to counteract this as you say?

    I think that society is more than the sum of its parts, but how would you describe the vision of our layabout, scrounging, badly educated, benefit dependant society that some perceive us to be today? Is this really how it is?

  13. Araminta :

    , one could say, that in fact, those industries today could not compete with the emerging industrial giants; India and China for example we need to look to basing our economy along different lines.

    One could also say that those industries could not compete with other industrial giants of the time, like Germany and the USA, for example. Clapped out industries producing out-dated designs, rustbucket cars, and that nice Mr Wilson canceling projects – Blue Streak, TSR2, – which could have brought industry out of the 19th and into the 20th century while whole swathes of the workforce were coralled into out-moded class warfare by the communist Union leaders of the time.

    On the actual question, any society, surely, is what the people making up the society agree it to be? Upon what, if anything, there is agreement nowadays, I’m blowed if I can see, especially after the uncalled for and unwanted importation of a large, largely uneducated and vocal minority to these islands whose basic mores are inimical to the ideas upon which whatever is left of the local society is based.

  14. Where do I start? Well I’ll start with the Beatified Margaret…

    She is one of those people who firmly believed that she got where she did by her own efforts and never saw that she was privileged. I can hear people asking how I can say that. There’s more to being privileged than being born with a silver spoon. She was born into a family that valued education, and education for women. She won a scholarship to a good school, and then won a further scholarship to Oxford. Certainly she worked hard to get those places, but she didn’t create those scholarships.

    Like so many self-made people who are convinced they’ve done it all alone, she ignored the fact that she could not have achieved what she did if the ‘society’ she so disdained had not been organised to help people like her. That belief in her own achievements led her to ignore the old dictum that with ‘privilege comes responsibility to others’.

    Furthermore, by discounting the fact that she had help up the ladder – she, along with many like her, have removed the ladders so that other people cannot follow her example. And what makes it worse, in my book, is that they then berate people who do not achieve what they did.

    That’s for starters…

  15. Boadicea; brilliant comment there…I will come back to you Ara, but not feeling very bright at this time of night. : )

  16. I do believe that globalisation is a by product of modernisation, in terms of how society was traditionally seen in its localised context this is no longer the case as we have become part of a wider society. In doing this the traditional traits that made up society ie the social factors of belief systems, customs etc have expanded to adopt as well as adapt different strains of thought. In our localised societies what was seen as deviancy for example homosexuality it is no longer the case, the adaptation of modern societal factors means this is no longer the case and in fact it is perceived to be the norm.

    Whilst society does provide us with guidelines and constraints that bind us to live and work within the rules and regulations established there still remains the need for deviancy. This role has been filled by ‘layabout, scrounging, badly educated’ and also as a consequence of a shrinking (globalisation) world this deviancy role has been assigned to all those that live with us yet not considered as part of our societies ie immigrants.

    People and society go hand in hand, one cannot exist without the other. It is people that make society but for only a few does society make the person, there will always remain a top and bottom.

    Goodnight.

  17. That makes two of us Claire! 🙂 I have to say though, that this is more a discussion point that anything else. I’m not in a good position to defend the Beatified Margaret…, although I do concede I agreed with some of her policies.

  18. I think it is far too easy to blame politicians of any stripe for the breakdown of society.
    I think people should be prepared to blame themselves for accepting and conniving to break the Judaeo Christian ethic of society. Liberalism permitted queers, unmarried mothers, shacking up without benefit of matrimony, the spread of AIDS without penalty, joke prison sentences, public drunkeness, ill behaved children and a general decline in manners.
    Once anything goes, it all goes, and then you don’t like the results of your own approbation!

    Interestingly, societies that are considered old fashioned, such as Wales and here in Whatcom County do not have anywhere near the same amount of trouble. Everybody knows everyone else and malefactors are soon reported to their families or the law.
    One of the greatest assets to social pressure to behave is a homogeneous stable society. Needless to say that does not include too many immigrants!

    It is painfully obvious that England has driven herself into the ground. Nothing will ever be mended until some rigour is put back into society, corporal punishment and decent jail sentences with hard labour would be a start!

    As far as unemployed wastelands, you have liberal free trade global trading policies to blame for that. Did no one ever stop to think of the consequences of allowing manufacturing to move offshore, obviously not! Bring back import tariffs and manufacturing to the UK so that the underemployed may at least earn a living industrial wage. Remember we were supposed to be going to move on to a knowledge based economy? Enough to make a cat laugh, the scum can’t read and write at all and the only knowledge seemed to be gained is how to fiddle the state!

    Don’t look at Thatcher, blame yourselves for not doing anything about it too.
    Not that I particularly cared for her, but she was a damned sight more useful than all of those who came after her. At least she managed to win the Falklands War, the oil reserves of which may well be the saving grace of Britain, unless the bleeding heart govt gives it all away!

  19. People seem to forget that she said this too, “It’s our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour.”

    By ‘society’ she meant a formal organistation with a constitution that has rules and regulations. Society cannot be defined in that way. Society is like a flock of birds or a herd of antelope. It is a loose amalgamation of individuals. You cannot and should not make demands off other people. You can only ask and hope that they will help you But you have no right to expect. By the same token you have a moral obligation to help others, but there is no legal obligation.

    She was not saying that one should not help others. Precisely the opposite. She said, ‘look after your neighbour’. That is the responsibility that comes with personal success. If I have benefited from society and I have achieved, then I have a duty to pay back. If I have yet to achieve, I cannot demand, I can only accept.

    She was absolutely correct in her sentiment though she might have chosen her words a little better.

  20. “Blame it on Apartheid” wat the answer to all of this country’s problems during the ’90’ and the early years of this century. Be it Health, Education, Roads, Employment, etc. the stock politician’s answer was “because of the apartheid regime ………”

    Well, that excuse no longer holds water anymore, it’s a tired worn out excuse, should a government spokesman try it he is laughed off the stage (and hopefully out of office) by the majority here. (Including what has a become a rather vocal press)

    I note that Mrs. Thatcher left office in 1990, that’s about the same time that F.W. ordered all government departments to assimilate ANC, IFP, PAC representatives.

    Our lot have now had 20 years to sort out this country and appear to be doing so by accepting responsibility for their own actions and moving forward.

    20 years is a long time.

    christinaosborne :

    I think people should be prepared to blame themselves for accepting and conniving to break the Judaeo Christian ethic of society. Liberalism permitted queers, unmarried mothers, shacking up without benefit of matrimony, the spread of AIDS without penalty, joke prison sentences, public drunkeness, ill behaved children and a general decline in manners.

    Well said Mrs O.

  21. Reading these comments, I conclude that Maggie had a point. During my more active years I’m not aware that I marched to any gubmint’s tune. Do/did you? She didn’t make me any more or less of a self-centred money-grabber, anymore that nanny Blair influenced my nursery behaviour as I got older. Dare I suggest that the media and communications revolution has made big contribution to ‘fashions’ in behaviour which people then attribute to politicians?

  22. kevmart, welcome. “…..People and society go hand in hand, one cannot exist without the other.” Er…… yes.

  23. Bravo: to expand on your comment #16. Tina is quite correct. The Industrial Revolution fuelled the expansion of the British Empire. The loss of which, and the shifting of trade blocs or as Tina put it “liberal free trade global policies, put paid to the idea of Britain being a major industrial power. Our heavily unionised workforce did not help either. Germany certainly protected their manufacturing base rather better that we did, but with the emergence of new industrial powers it remains to be seen how long they can compete.

    I agree with the concept of self-sufficiency and the overreliance on financial services is a cause for concern, but I don’t think we can go back.

  24. Right I’m ready for part 2…

    It was comments from Maggie like that quoted above that encouraged me to vote Maggie in for her first term. Even then it was, for some people, better to be unemployed than to work and the Unions were out of control. There was, as there still is, a need to make employment a better alternative than doing nothing. And there was then a need to stop some of the Unions’ excesses.

    However, it was Maggie’s way of dealing with problems that I didn’t and still don’t like. For me the obvious, and quickest way, to solve the differentials between wages and unemployment benefits was to raise the tax threshold… but, far as I am concerned, she made not the slightest effort to do anything about that particular problem.

    Maggie was utterly ideologically drive – her aim was to remove Government from every aspect of society.

    She sold the ‘family silver’ whether it made profit or not. Who ended up making a profit? Not the taxpayer. Who made up the shortfall to the Government from the loss of profits? The taxpayer.

    She sold council houses and refused to build any more. House prices and rents soared to astronomical levels. Who paid for those who could not afford to buy and who could not find anywhere to live? The taxpayer. And who is still meeting the cost of high rents through subsidising those who cannot afford to pay them? The taxpayer.

    She smashed the Unions and rendered them impotent. They are a necessary bulwark against powerful employers. Who picked up the bill at the time for those made unemployed and who picks up the cost, now, of boosting low incomes? The taxpayer.

    Who picks up the cost of child-care for families who need two incomes to live? The tax-payer. And who picks up the cost of children brought up in those institutions without the stability of ‘family life’? The whole of society.

    She allowed industries to close, and closed a few herself. Who picked up the tab for the unemployed these closures made? Well now just guess who…

    I could carry on… but I think that I have said enough.

    On the face of it Maggie did remove Government from society. But what she set in train was, in fact, a greater dependency on State hand-outs for those who could not meet the higher cost of living that her policies brought about.

  25. Yes, Boadicea; It’s difficult to find fault with her quotation above.
    The aim of removing government from every aspect of society was a laudable aim and particularly so when one compares this with the Socialist interference and enthusiasm for “big government”. I agree with you, about the effects of her ruthless application of these policies.

  26. There has to be a balance… too little Government involvement is as bad as too much involvement.

  27. Bang on the money Boa,

    The hag sold off the telephone network, an industry which only this year has created the richest man on earth, the energy companies, the rail network, water companies, our building societies the list goes on and on.

    In doing so, all the money being made by the agencies stopped flowing into the treasury while a lot more cash started flowing out in handouts to support the now unemployed. Non-jobs were created in gubmint at further expense to keep the unemployment figures low and the voter shackled to the hand which feeds.

    When the hag eventually shrivels up and dies I swear I will dance a jig on her grave. She is a detestable, power hungry, bully of a capitalist bitch and responsible for most of the problems we now find in our country.

  28. Ferret, I think you were a young man in 1979. Probably too young to remember that before the privatisation of BT, you could not get a bloody Telephone. It was a completely hopeless, monolithic and expensive shambles. If it had not been for her, Britain would not have lead the world in cellular technology. Companies like Vodafone would never been able to get off the ground. You are being naive in the extreme if you think that the money stopped flowing into the treasury. As a result of the upswing in the economy, revenues poured into the treasury. When Major handed over the country to Blair in 1997, there was a surplus. Now look what has happened.

    In 1979 Britain was an even bigger embarrassment than it is now. Don’t let your misguided Northern prejudice, for that is what it is, blind you of the facts. Your little tirade makes you look very foolish I am afraid. The country was a mess and Thatcher saved it. Blair and Brown have all but destroyed it.

    As for the society thing, read my post above.

  29. I rather thought that might be your view, Furry!

    Yes, you are right, Boadicea, careless quoting on my part. There obviously has to be a balance, but I’d always opt on the side of minimal interference, with provision of some sort of safety net for those who are genuinely in need.

  30. No, Sipu, it doesn’t make Ferret look foolish at all.

    I am growing tired of your misogynistic, anti-Semitic, hubristic, racist, hypocritical, non-smoking tobacco baron sneers at all and sundry. I know that you can’t help being an arrogant South African white ponce, but you could try.

  31. Sipu

    As a Southerner in 1979, I do remember that I couldn’t get a phone. I also know about the cost of housing and how much councils had to pay for a night’s accommodation for the ‘homeless’ who couldn’t pay the exorbitant rents.

    The country was a mess – but Thatcher’s ‘solutions’ did not solve the problems, read what I wrote….

  32. Sipu,

    Please, do not patronise me.

    Major completely screwed the pooch what are you talking about? Bliar and the unelected Bruin merely thought they could follow the pattern. It worked, they are rich, untouchable and made for life.

    IF there was a surplus when we kicked Major out of gubmint, thats right kicked Major out not voted Bliar in. It wil have been purely from the obscene profits made from selling nearly all of the family silver.

    Companies are and always have been making extreme profits from the utilities. They do this to please shareholders and line their nests. Look now at the shite state of affairs that three decades of minimum infrastructure investment has left us.

    I remember the days of the GPO Sipu. I remember the party line my home shared with 3 other neighbours. I also remeber not having a phone at all. Do not compare a developing technology with the current state of availability.

  33. Bearsy,

    Thank you for the support but I can deal with this ill mannered ex-pat with both hands tied behind my back.

    When the nasty little hag eventually disappears up her own exhaust Sipu, I only hope you are given sufficient notice to vacate.

  34. “I am extraordinarily patient, provided I get my own way in the end. ”
    “I don’t mind how much my Ministers talk, so long as they do what I say. ”
    “I usually make up my mind about a man in ten seconds, and I very rarely change it. ”

    Sounded like very reasonable, open-minded, democratic lady to me. In fact she reminds me of someone.

  35. Watch it Bearsy, or I may have to moderate you.
    Tone it down a little, there’s a good bear.

  36. Bearsy, “I am growing tired of your misogynistic, anti-Semitic, hubristic, racist, hypocritical, non-smoking tobacco baron sneers at all and sundry. I know that you can’t help being an arrogant South African white ponce, but you could try.”.
    Christ, you are a prick.

  37. Oh goodie, a vaguely controversial post.

    I blame it on the Baby Boomers. Not all of them you understand (especially not Bravo), but a fair number. It was in part their liberal attitudes, distain of disciple and ‘anything is possible (yes, the ‘anything’ is what we ended up and constantly moan about) while allowing standards to deteriorate while navel gazing and allowing things to go to wrack and ruin in the name of a caring society and welfare state; while all the time being more interested in lining their own pockets and spouting ‘thou dost’ this and ‘thy shall do unto’ that.

    T’was Edukashun what did it squire; and a belief in intellectual superiority over hard graft and a sensible practical approach to the order of things. Meritocracy would have better served and in this Maggie was partially right to empower people to achieve instead of just clobbering them with wealth deprivation.

    in 99% of cases we promote people who can’t lead and aren’t qualified to manage and are more paranoid of their own self-esteem than interested in promoting success, change or positive results. Britain is doomed by it’s own ineptitude and insecurity rather than a dearth of potential talent.

    Minty, the answer is simple. There is such a thing as ‘society’. It’s a nightmare and we’re in it. The true question is how to unravel this mess.

  38. I think Boa and Ferret have got it spot on here, again. As a child, at school in the eighties, I remember a lot of the miners’ strikes in my area, and of course, school was shut half of the time because of the teachers’ strikes. That would be unthinkable now; workers’ rights have been eroded to the point where they’re non existant; bosses just have to say ‘jump’ and we can only say ‘how high?’, or face losing our jobs… But I do think a lot of the rot set in under Thatcher, especially in the north. And there is always a price; just look at the Bulger case, which happened in a place where people had been systematically ground down for years by the Tories. Just out of interest, how many northerners are there on here who think the opposite…?

  39. claire2 :

    As a child, at school in the eighties, I remember a lot of the miners’ strikes in my area, and of course, school was shut half of the time because of the teachers’ strikes. That would be unthinkable now;…….

    Claire, it sounds as if you are implying that school being shut half the time because of the strikes, and the miners being out on strike all th time was a good thing. Was that your intent?

  40. Brown outs, three month wait for a phone at exorbitant prices, rubbish piling up in the streets, coal cheaper to ship from Australia than to dig out of the ground, dockers’ restrictive practices shutting down the Port of London, (Millwall boy here, sort of,) you can’t blame Mrs Thatcher for all of the consequences of what went before.

    Boadicea. Your #30 was, if you’ll pardon the expression, bloody brilliant. A better exposition on the law of unintended consequences I have yet to see.

  41. Bravo,

    Agreed that the unions had far too much clout in the 70s but was there realy any need to throw the entire nursery out with the bathwater?

    She got rid of the immediate problem I agree but started a process which finds us in the world of hurt we can see today. I hate the bitch.

  42. As for expensive phone lines, well they were new. You try buying a 3D plasma widescreen today and see how far your LG flat screen money gets you. 🙂

    BT will still try and rip you off for reconnection or higher speed BBand provision.

  43. Ferret, you are sounding like a parliamentarian.

    Hey, don’t get me wrong, but my family and I watch TV on a 64cm LG and a 61cm Sony, the day that my family start buying ‘rock star’ gadgets will be the day.

    You’re previous comment infers that everybody is entitled to something or other.

    I’ll never see the day of 3d plasma gismos in my house.

  44. Bravo; no…what I meant was that the strikes obviously had a huge impact on me as a child, even though I was often quite glad that school had shut. But it’s ironic that even the basic right to strike has been taken away from us. So those strikes were a luxury by today’s standards, even though it didn’t seem like that and no one could have foreseen it at the time…

  45. Ferret :

    BT will still try and rip you off for reconnection or higher speed BBand provision.

    Still a monopoly on copper connections, see? That’s why my BB in HK was 25 Mb, 6 years ago!

  46. Thanks Paul: interesting take on things. The Baby Boomers, eh? Well certainly they were a generation associated with rejection of traditional values, and grew up to expect certain “privileges”, prosperity and so on, so you may have a point.

    I suspect most of them grew out of it though!

  47. Claire. When I got my Union card in 1967, it was a rite of passage. That was back in the days when Trade Unons meant something more than job protection and socialist indoctrination – education, progress, good dtuff like that. If I’d gone to Uni instead of joining the Army, I’d have chosen Ruskin College.

  48. Bravo; sorry, what do you mean? I always thought unions were primarily for the purpose of job protection…

  49. There you go, you see? Back in the day, the Trades Unions were about more than job protection. They were about fairness. What the Aussies call a fair shake. Fair day’s work for a fair day’s pay and good stuff like that. And, above all, about progress for the workers, equal opportunity, who you are, not who you know – hence Ruskin College, for example, and Nuffield Trust scholarships, educational tours, subsidised theatre, music and Opera tickets…

    The daily newspaper in our house was the Daily Herald – check out an archived copy on line and youwill find it to be a different animal entirely from papers aimed at the workers today. For a start, it contains words of more than one syllable.

  50. Ok, Bravo; thanks…a differnt breed of union entirely, then, to what we have today. Tell the truth, I feel a bit wet behind the ears, politically speaking, on here sometimes ; )

  51. Hello Claire: many thanks, but some people are best avoided, don’t you think? I think you hit the nail on the head though; it most certainly is very unpleasant and threatening. Hence my disenchantment with MyT.

  52. Oh, ARa, you talking about Jack Black? why does he keep threatening you? And why do I keep wading in like some kind of cyber knight?! Get Badger on his case, that’s what I say.

  53. I’ve looked, Ara. And just started another ding dong…fear not though. I don’t know a huge amount about these things, but I’m sure he can’t trace you just from a website. I can see why you’re scared though: he’s coming over a bit freaky Friday if you ask me ; )

  54. No, you are right Claire; the thought of an overweight, rather obsessive geriatric turning up at my front door is risible rather than frighting. I’m just somewhat weary of being hounded on MyT every time I show my face on the site. Besides, who the hell do they think they are? If the site were properly managed, these people would not be allowed anywhere near the place.

    What a really sad bunch; they cannot cope with dissent and they go to such lengths to suppress it. Freaky Friday does nor even begin to describe it!

  55. Grumpy Larry and Bubbles are just rude, ignorant trash. Ignore them, for they are nothing but rabble who believe that they have found a way to be objectionable without responsibility. They are the mindless hoons of the cyber-world.

    Nothing can be done about them on MyT, because the Telegraph moderation policy is not adhered to by the Telegraph moderators. It has become a valueless cesspit of a blog site. The sooner it is closed, the better.

  56. Ara; I’d send ‘im packin’ any time for you honey. But how come there are all these Big Men/egos on that site, but not a single one to be found when you actually need them? Men, eh?!; )
    Bearsy, just out of curiosity, what’s Larry got to do with it? ; )

  57. Claire: Larry aka Jack Tar, and about twenty ID’s before that.

    Sorry, I forgot to add that I appreciate your support but anyone who agrees with me becomes a target, so I would not wish that on you.

  58. Ara: they are a weird lot…my flirtation with multiple IDs extends to putting up this silly mermaid which I now can’t get rid of ; )

    I am glad to support you; God knows there are plenty of times I have been among ‘those you support…’
    But you know me; telling me not to antagonise someone is like waving a red rag to a bull ; )

  59. Minty MBE,

    You know where I stand on those two morons.

    Honestly if either of them had a brain cell implanted it would die of loneliness.

    I seldom bother with MyT these days.

  60. More neuroticism?
    The worst they could do is turn up and drink you out of pink gin!
    do get a grip.

    Why on earth do you keep on about it so? Your constant reprises of the situation are becoming somewhat obsessive and retentive.
    Rather than induce mind glazing boredom, why not just walk away and fail to respond?
    Were you genuinely scared you would have sued the Telegraph. issued writs and called the police by now, either put up or shut up!

    Another quite good blog wrecked by introspective navel gazing.

  61. Christina; Stalking is a big problem on MyT though; I never realised that until a few days ago so I can’t imagine it’s particularly nice being on the receiving end.
    But having said that,you’re right; I should certainly stop…ahem – navel gazing.
    Although it is, er, a rather nice navel….;

  62. CO,

    Try looking at the behaviour of your clubmates on MyT sometime.

    They pounce on certain blogs and regardless of the content attack their pet targets. You may say it is harmless CO but that is your opinion. To some it is very annoying and to others it is upsetting.

    I have no doubt it is offputting to new bloggers to witness such adhom bickering and sometimes vicious slander. Unfortunately MyT is so absolutely lawless at present it just isn’t worth the effort.

  63. Those that indulge on both sides are equally argumentative and needlessly stir it up again and again to the utter boredom of the rest of us.
    It is always the same people.
    I was under the the impression that we came here to get away from such nonsense not have it dragged here with the whining, self pitying, self indulgent faux sanctimony which we have to endure.

    Should the lady in question have been some toothsome morsel in her thirties one would have more given the whole thing more credence, as it is, I really don’t think so!

    I do not think this constitutes stalking, wishful thinking maybe.

    claire why give this nonsense substance with the breathless ingenue support?
    Unworthy of any with even a modicum of brain cells.

    I’m off for the day, get more sense up the greenhouse from a load of potted plants, at least they make sense, keep their own counsel and are a damned sight less tedious.
    Probably got a higher IQ too.

  64. Thanks Tina: yes it was an interesting post. As for the rest of your formulaic rant(s), very funny actually, but perhaps you should have read my comment #67, before launching into print.

    Room temperature IQ’s, vegetables, oh come on Tina, are you still feeling under the weather? You are not on good form.

  65. Christina; woah, harsh words, missis! Well, sorry hon but Ara is a good person and does not stir up this sort of thing. And judging by what I’ve seen on there inthe last week, she is not the only one being stalked by nutters. I honestly think that some people are being hounded off there for no apparent reason…
    But yes, paranoia can set in. And you sound like my mum, so I accept the – er – talking to…
    Oh, and I’m 32; I have all my own teeth – unlike most of the population of Blackburn – so does that qualify me for being a – er – toothsome morsel in my thirties…?! ; )

  66. Claire: you are starting to understand. My I just give you a short potted history?

    Firstly, we all tolerate and indeed find Tina amusing. She has a long history on MyT and we tend to indulge her, but do be aware, she hates humanity, prefers dogs and vegetables, has admitted to two failed marriages and now seems luckily,to have found a seemingly very tolerant man, who has dragged her off to the back of beyond. Very beautiful place but I somehow get the impression that she is not a happy person.

    So, she speaks her mind and so should you. You don’t have to put up with her rants. I tend to, but I know more about her.

    PS: you may not be aware that she is a member of a closed site, with Bubbles, Jack Tar and Rosie. This surprises most of us, but hey, let us not hold that against her.

  67. Hey Ara; yes, I knew there was THe Club…have no desire to join, having been in the club/up spout twice in last three years! But it is true, you know. You’re not the only one being hounded; there are some dreadful things being said to people on there…did you know that someone has set up an entire website, dedicated to basically bitching and slandering people from MyT? All this is a revelation to me this week!
    But in many ways, Christine is right…my mum would say the same to us all; land of make believe, get a grip and clean the floor or something! Speaking of which, have a ton of f*king marking to do and job application forms. Someone please pull hte plug on my internet connection tongith, please! ; )

  68. Read Ferret’s comment Claire; he is not so charitable about her little clique and I take his point. I just don’t quite believe that anyone with any intelligence or moral standards could actually be part of this rubbish. I could be wrong of course.

  69. Actually Claire: the longer you stay on on MyT the more you have to take into account that a great many things are difficult to explain without bias. It is better if you just make up your own mind. Steer you own course, and trust your judgement. We all of us have some axe to grind to be fair.

  70. Ara; hi, no worries. I’m obviously of the same mind set as you and Ferret, despite having, what was it again, no modicum of brain cells or whatever. Ach, well; blondes… But I have already made up my mind and will back you up and continue to do so 100 per cent when that Jack Black bloke is around. I can’t stand bullying of any sort and you don’t deserve it.
    Right, better scarper before Tina blasts my bony ass into ether..; )

  71. Claire: you are a sweetie; and I do not doubt you will come to your own conclusions. I think you have it right, but I would say that, wouldn’t I? 🙂

  72. Ara; I speak as I find, luv…I have been shocked by what ‘ve seen there again though, what with the level of harassment. That Shanghai bloke is way out of order, you know. I wouldn’t fancy meeting some of them in a dark alley way; then again, I guess I’m not likely to. There are some advantages to living oop ere int Back o Beyond/Wuthering Heights with all the northern inbreds you know. Actually, I’m probably one of them; )
    Right, better go. Still got lessons to plan and dishes to do, and a 6 am start ; )

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