Home > General > R. I. P.

R. I. P.

In Paris, it was the slaughter of the innocents once again.

Let’s spare a thought for their families and friends.

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Categories: General
  1. christinaosborne
    November 14, 2015 at 5:49 pm

    No!
    They will not be able to rest in peace until there has been retaliation and retribution on a scale unseen as yet.
    They have been killed by the Schengen agreement, their craven traitorous politicians, Brussels and misguided PC thought throughout Europe.

    How innocent is anyone who has refused to see the writing on the wall? it has been there for years for those who could read.
    The Trojan horse disgorges its guts in our heartlands and there is a general wringing of hands, the laying of flowers and the lighting of candles.
    It isn’t going to cut it.

  2. November 14, 2015 at 6:44 pm

    A harsh judgement imho.

  3. christinaosborne
    November 14, 2015 at 6:56 pm

    Not at all.
    I do not think that most Western people realise that ISIS is an apocalyptic cult. They have them as idealist zealots. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
    They believe in an apocalypse wipe out of the world any moment now, that is why they are quite as happy to become suicide bombers and get ahead of the crowd so to speak. The more of us they take with them the more kudos acquired. There is no reason that can be used against them, only destruction.
    And the sooner the better both in the middle East and those vipers/immigrants/refugees embedded in Europe.

  4. November 14, 2015 at 6:59 pm

    So you feel secure in your gun-crazy society and have no sympathy for others?

  5. November 14, 2015 at 7:07 pm
  6. November 14, 2015 at 8:03 pm

    Janus

    You have just made two baseless and completely unjustified assumptions and then used them as a basis for a personal attack on Christina. A typical debating trick of the lowest kind that in your saner moments you would yourself condemn, I hope. Bad boy!

    The Chariot weeps for the innocent victims of yet another example of Islamic barbarism, and for their loved ones who have lost them and for all the wounded and traumatised souls who suffer because of the lunacy of followers of a sick death cult.

    The Chariot has long condemned the left-wing bleeding-heart apologists who continue to assert in tones of faux-moral ‘superiority’ that most Muslins (sic) are nice people, and will continue to do so. They are a major part of the problem and are traitors to their own culture and religion (if any).

    All of which is a rather long-winded way of expressing support for Christina and her blunt but accurate assessment of the current situation. Go gal !!

  7. christinaosborne
    November 14, 2015 at 8:40 pm

    Cheers Bearsy.
    Sometimes one has to stand up and be counted. Time for talking over, more scythes and flambeau!
    I don’t actually think that having guns makes one any safer, but at least if you have a concealed carry permit you get a sporting chance to shoot back immediately they start. Otherwise its a turkey shoot grovelling on the floor! Personally I would prefer to be shot trying my best to kill them first, but then I’m not a coward.

  8. Boadicea
    November 14, 2015 at 9:28 pm

    Western Governments are all wringing their hands, and pouring out sympathy. But not one of them has had the courage to accept responsibility for the problem, which is the open-door-to-all-comers policy – and woe betide any native of the country who doesn’t want an alien culture, with an avowed policy of converting the whole world to its dark-age view of the world welcomed with open arms and free hand-outs.

    I also weep for the victims, but there will be many more victims and many more tears unless Western Societies deal with both ISIS and their Trojan Horses.

    Next week we may well be saying RIP Copenhagen, or RIP Brisbane … words are not a sufficient response to these barbarians

  9. sheona
    November 14, 2015 at 11:52 pm

    Janus, how on earth can you consider Christina’s first comment as “a harsh judgement”? It’s just the truth. There are regional elections in France next month and I’m sure LePen and the FN will do well. Merkel’s rating in Germany is falling by the day and if Europe finds it has strong nationalist governments soon, ready to make life uncomfortable for immigrants who don’t integrate, that’s fine by me.

  10. Boadicea
    November 15, 2015 at 12:27 am

    Sheona: I would be very surprised if Europe does not find itself with strong nationalist governments. Present European Government have steadfastly refused to listen to the feelings of their electorate – why, on earth, would they expect to be re-elected?

  11. November 15, 2015 at 4:34 am

    CO is, in fact, perfectly correct in her assessment. Islam requires those who submit to it — the literal translation of “Muslim”, in fact, is one who submits, to attempt to spread Islam. There are many good people who happen to be Muslim, but virtually to the man — and woman — their desire is to see as many people as possible convert to Islam.The not-so-nice Muslims aren’t content with pushing the point, they’re more than willing to use violence. In fact, they practically chomp at the bit when they see the chance! CO is also perfectly correct in her assessment of ISIS. Part of their driving desire is to provoke an all-out war. They believe that there has to be a battle with lights burning like the sun — with, of course, the ultimate triumph of the Armies of Islam to be fought in what is now Syria, or, more accurately, in whatever is left of Syria. Iran is no different and their particular version of Shi’a Islam seeks an end similar to what ISIS has in mind! Interestingly enough, al-Baghdadi, the leader of ISIS, is from the clan of the Prophet Mohammed (may swine defecate on him) which is a traditional requirement of being the Caliph. Oddly enough, the King of Jordan is a direct descendent. Anyway… There is something that we must understand about Islam and that is that it is unwilling to be in a subordinate position to any other faith, creed or lifestyle! Again,most Muslims are, in fact, nice enough people but their goal is to impose their religion and way of life upon us. This point is moot. In Minnesota I had a Wahhabi neighbour. We had many frank religious discussions and he admitted that his goal was to see Islam dominate. He certainly had no desire to kill anyone, but he would do everything short of harming another to see his will done. He admitted that virtually all Muslims he knew were much the same and some were even willing to commit violence in the name of their religion, and were pressing him to do the same, should they be given the chance.

    This, in reality, is not isolated — nor is this the end. Who remembers Madrid in 2004? Who doesn’t remember London in 2005? There are regular attacks in Sweden, Germany and elsewhere in Europe that are swept under the carpet by our complacent media. I know that Jews aren’t always the most popular people on this site, but have we forgotten that Jewish schools and other facilities have been targeted for murderous attacks many times over the last decade — especially in France? Have we forgotten that our fifth columnists on the far-left have sided with Jihadis in attacking Jews in Sweden, Austria and Germany? We’ve been ignoring this for years. Only now, when attacks become more regular, when they become bloodier to we suddenly grasp the significance of what is actually in our midst. I do not for a second believe that Europe will fall, but I am increasingly certain that a period of unusual liberalism is coming to a rapid, bloody end and that Europe will — as a whole — become a far more nationalistic place.

  12. November 15, 2015 at 6:44 am

    I repeat, the victims were innocent and R.I.P. Is a suitable epitaph. Your no doubt justifiable rants will not devalue it.

  13. Boadicea
    November 15, 2015 at 7:45 am

    Janus, Not one person on this site has said that the victims were anything else but innocent.

    However, I do not think that RIP is a suitable epitaph at all when so many people (including yourself) dismiss justifiable criticism of Government policies on immigration, the nature of ISIS, and many Islamic beliefs as ‘rants ‘.

    If I were one of those victims, I can assure you that I would not be resting in peace knowing that large sections of my community were still failing to see the dangers inherent in allowing huge numbers of people with no loyalty to the values and culture of the countries into which they are welcomed to settle freely.

    In fact, I’d be making every effort I could from the other side to haunt the lot of them…

  14. November 15, 2015 at 7:45 am

    PS to CO: The ineffable D Trump agrees that if the victims had carried guns the outcome would have been different. Scary.

  15. Boadicea
    November 15, 2015 at 7:52 am

    Christopher

    I’m not sure where you have picked up the idea that Jews are not always the most popular people on this site. Certainly not from either Bearsy or myself.

    My sentiments were most certainly with Israel, who I think were incredibly forbearing at having rockets slung at them on a daily basis… I was about to ask how long it would take France, Britain or anywhere else to retaliate if that happened to them… but it occurs to me that that they’d probably do just what they are doing right now – wrung their hands, spout sympathetic words to the innocent victims and do – absolutely nothing.

  16. Boadicea
    November 15, 2015 at 7:54 am

    Ah well Janus – there we are in agreement. Mind you, Trump did also say that Merkel’s policy of Welcome-All-and Sundry was insane – and I cannot but agree with him there 🙂

  17. November 15, 2015 at 8:05 am

    Boadicea: neither you nor Bearsy have ever made comments of questionable taste, but other members of this site have.

    European Jews are the canaries in the mine. They’re always the first to be attacked, targeted. After that, more and more suffer the same fate. The French have retaliated in the past and will continue to do so. I fear that things will carry on until it is too late and things will turn nasty and hideous in the West, however. The current lot need to go — from the worst of all, Obama, Merkel, Swedish idiot and Hollande to the nearly-as-bad Turntricks.

  18. November 15, 2015 at 8:22 am

    Not me either, Christopher.

  19. November 15, 2015 at 9:53 am

    janus

    So you feel secure in your gun-crazy society and have no sympathy for others?

    If half a dozen jihadists in in invaded my village and started shooting the inhabitants I think we would wish for something to defend ourselves with.

    Of course it won’t happen …???

  20. Boadicea
    November 15, 2015 at 10:03 am

    What happened to my comment!

    I repeat: Yes, Christopher you are right there have been a few adverse comments – and, yes, Janus – not from you!

  21. christinaosborne
    November 15, 2015 at 4:05 pm

    I expect they were from me. But then I have some VERY personal objection to Jews that has no doubt coloured my judgment on the whole race. As far as the Middle East goes a pox on all their houses and the sooner they are wiped out the better, they appear to have been causing non stop trouble for too long.
    WTF couldn’t they have stayed as Zoroastrians? At least they kept their wars local in those days.

  22. November 16, 2015 at 5:36 am

    Janus: every person in my mum’s neighbourhood is armed. In fact, my mum and her partner are both armed to the teeth. Other than one drunken tosser, everyone minds their Ps and Qs.

    CO: yes, among others. I have some very persona objections to the Obamatanic and would rather go back to China than stay here for more than a few months! The Zoroastrians were in Persia — pity, Islam wrecked that civilisation in the same way it did the Levant, North Africa, much of Central and South Asia and even China!

  23. November 16, 2015 at 6:47 am

    Gosh guys. I am glad that I was away from most of this until it calmed down
    .
    Two comments about the comments.
    Christina your comment about “gettng ahead of the crowd” nearly made me fall off my stool laughing.

    Bearsy: Your comment defending Christina was, I am sure, done in the right spirit and I agree with most of it. However the sentence “The Chariot has long condemned the left-wing bleeding-heart apologists who continue to assert in tones of faux-moral ‘superiority’ that most Muslins (sic) are nice people, and will continue to do so.” made the hairs stand up on the back of my neck.

    Are WE all not “The Chariot”? In which case I prefer to make my own views and conclusions. We are all individuals with a free and differing mindset and should not be wrapped up as the views of “The Chariot”.
    Most Muslims ARE nice people and there is nothing morally superior in saying so.
    On saying that I also believe that the current extremist disease should be cut out as quickly as possible, even if a few of the nice guys get caught up in the process.

  24. November 16, 2015 at 6:49 am

    P.S. Janus, your blog was well recieved and despite the comments above, I am sure that most people appreciated your intent.

  25. November 16, 2015 at 7:34 am

    Gazoopi, me old mate –

    Sorry, but Boadicea and I are The Chariot – she drives and I feed the horses. Youse guys are the passengers, along for the ride, and very welcome you are, too.

    It’s a shame you hold Mr Average Islam-follower in such high regard, but that’s your choice, of course. You can’t help being wrong. 🙂

  26. November 16, 2015 at 7:51 am

    Thanks Bearsy for the clarification. Good to know that when ‘The Chariot’ is referred to, it means only the two of you.
    I don’t hold the average Muslim in ‘such high regard’ but the ones I know and have worked with are just normal average people who want to live their lives, raise a family and not interfere with anyone else. To consider all Muslims as bad, would not only be very foolish and totally incorrect, but would also generate unnecessary hatred if spouted out loud.

  27. November 16, 2015 at 8:00 am

    gaz, at last the voice of reason. Thank you. Of course the adage ‘the only good one is a dead one’ is adopted by all extremists, both muslim and otherwise, some here on this website. C’est la vie.

    I too was happy to learn that my views are not the Chariot’s. 🙂

  28. November 16, 2015 at 8:10 am

    Christopher:
    ‘Janus: every person in my mum’s neighbourhood is armed. In fact, my mum and her partner are both armed to the teeth. Other than one drunken tosser, everyone minds their Ps and Qs.’

    How comforting! Not. In my old-fashioned, English way, I’m happy, despite your family in the US of A, that the majority of the civilised old world abhors such practices.

  29. November 16, 2015 at 8:15 am

    Gazoopi: Bearsy is perfectly right, to be fair. Bearsy and Boadicea pay for the Chariot and they also maintain the site. We did not question the fact that MyT belonged to the Telegraph and that we were merely writers posting on their website. We have to give Boadicea and Bearsy as much credit, that is their due. This is like an 18th century salon. We come here to voice our opinions,sometimes we agree, sometimes we disagree but we shouldn’t forget that the “building” belongs to our hosts. That said, it is past midnight on the Pacific coast of North America and I have a good book and warm bed waiting!

  30. Boadicea
    November 16, 2015 at 8:19 am

    Just to clarify a point, I also don’t think all Muslims are bad…

    However, I will tell a short tale that left me wondering just what sort of mindset is being taught to second generation immigrants. Whilst in the UK last year I met a very nice young woman, one could tell from her appearance that she was from India or places thereabout. She didn’t wear a headscarf, but was very anxious to tell me that she was a Muslim, from Bangladesh, had lived in the UK since she was 3 months old – some 18 years, and all her siblings had been born in Britain. In the course of the conversation, she remarked that, of course, she had to remember that she and her family were living in a foreign country. She had no sense of identification with Britain, its culture, its history or its people. I actually found that rather scary.

    And to pour a little cold water on the debate, can I remind people that some 27% of British Muslims polled after Charlie Hebdo thought that the violence was justifiable.

    And thus, I think a little caution about inviting some hundreds of thousands of people who have no empathy with Western culture to settle in Western countries is called for.

  31. November 16, 2015 at 8:23 am

    Janus: it is perfectly comforting! There are usually only 2 policemen to regularly patrol hundreds of square miles. It can take them an hour to respond at times, if not more. It snowed today and a main road connecting California and Nevada was closed for avalanche control. There are murders here, there are criminals here and, frankly, the police cannot be relied upon to arrive on time every time they’re needed. Your comments, achingly condescending, reflect your experiences in a relatively safe, densely-populated country in which the risk of something truly awful happening is relatively small. Considering that terrorists and criminals, be it in North America or Europe, never seem to have trouble finding large arms you seem content to only disarm those vulnerable.

  32. November 16, 2015 at 8:24 am

    Christopher: Thanks and you are of course right. I am very grateful to Bearsy and Boadicea for this site and certainly give them credit for it. It was a genuine impression of mine that Bearsy was speaking for all of the ‘passengers’ in his comment above and not just for himself. That is why I questioned it. Now I am happy that it is clarified.
    I would still expect though, that if someone wrote “this is the view of MyT” they would mean the members and not the host of the telegraph. I would react in a similar way.

  33. November 16, 2015 at 8:36 am

    Boadicea: that mindset is not unique to Britain — or to Muslims. It’s part of “multiculturalism”. People are taught not to integrate and to maintain primary cultural links/affinities to countries that are effectively foreign. Once, at university, a female student of Taiwanese parentage complained that she always felt herself to be Taiwanese but was horrified by her family’s rejection of this sense of herself — they considered their American-born, American-raised relative to be an American relative, not a Taiwanese relative. A Chinese-American friend and a Chinese friend almost fought each other because the Chinese, born and raised in China, refused to accept the Chinese-American, California-born, California-raised as Chinese because she had only a foreigner’s understanding of China despite sharing the same ethnicity. I was once nearly censured for rolling my eyes at an American who claimed to be “European” and have the right to speak for all Europe despite his never having left the United States. Indians in Canada generally associate with India more than Canada and Turks in Germany associate most strongly with Turkey, not Germany. There are still on-going tensions in Finland between the Finnish majority and the Swedish minority. They’re all “Finns”, but ethnic Swedes, despite being a small minority with a declining population concentrated in relatively limited areas, continue to claim special privileges.

  34. November 16, 2015 at 8:40 am

    Christopher, you reply proves my point, even if you find me condescending. Owing to your manic gun laws for which the old world cannot be held responsible, carrying guns is now the social norm, which your police authorities cannot police. For all our faults, the old world steadfastly refuses to bow to those who lobby for the average citizen to ‘bear arms’.

  35. November 16, 2015 at 9:01 am

    Sent from my Sony Xperia™ smartphone

  36. November 16, 2015 at 9:53 am

    christinaosborne

    No!
    They will not be able to rest in peace until there has been retaliation and retribution on a scale unseen as yet.
    They have been killed by the Schengen agreement, their craven traitorous politicians, Brussels and misguided PC thought throughout Europe.
    How innocent is anyone who has refused to see the writing on the wall? it has been there for years for those who could read.
    The Trojan horse disgorges its guts in our heartlands and there is a general wringing of hands, the laying of flowers and the lighting of candles.
    It isn’t going to cut it.

    Absolutely right.

    BTW This Saturday I have an appointment at our local (useless Tory dish rag) MP’s surgery. The intention is to complain about the ludicrous levels of compliance being forced upon our little business. I don’t expect it to make the slightest difference but feel impelled to make some kind of protest. I shall regard the meeting as successful if I’m escorted out by the security people – not that there will be any.
    Might have a go at him about immigration as well.

  37. November 16, 2015 at 10:31 am

    janus
    the old world steadfastly refuses to bow to those who lobby for the average citizen to ‘bear arms’.

    I’m sure the jihadists have taken account of this.

  38. Boadicea
    November 16, 2015 at 10:45 am

    Christopher – I love the idea of an 18th C salon!

    I remember having a tremendous argument on MyT with someone who stoutly maintained her right to live as a Pakistani in Britain – and with someone else who thought I should be very happy that a particular church with links to Thomas a Becket and other notable English / British persons would be maintained as a museum when Islam was the predominant religion in the UK…

    Unfortunately, in our efforts not to claim our culture is superior – we have allowed cultures and beliefs that are definitely inferior to flourish. I find it intolerable that I am expected to respect and accept attitudes, practices and behaviour that we decided were unacceptable a long time ago.

    Gazoopi – what did you send from your Xperia? 🙂

    Janus – I, too have a problem with the US gun-laws. But I have an even bigger problem when they send their pro-gun lobby here to tell us to change our gun-laws.

    Jazz – Good Luck! My son-in-law and daughter run a small business in the UK – so I have some idea of the problems involved in running a small business.

  39. November 16, 2015 at 10:58 am

    Boadicea, My previous comment would have been better if it had said. ” I’m sure the jihadists have taken this into account “. However I can’t edit it.

    There is a small add on for wordpress which allows editing of comments for a short time after posting:-

    https://wordpress.org/plugins/simple-comment-editing/

    Hope you don’t think me presumptuous for suggesting this.

  40. November 16, 2015 at 11:02 am

    Jazz, if you’d like to bear arms, fine. Try America. I don’t want the average muslim to have a gun here. Do you?

  41. November 16, 2015 at 11:48 am

    Of course we’d have to be careful about who was allowed a firearm licence. We might preclude certain groups.

  42. November 16, 2015 at 11:51 am

    Boadicea: OMG, what happened? I am sure that I wrote something quite deep and fundamental to this debate but can’t for the life of me remember what it was.

  43. November 16, 2015 at 11:54 am

    Good idea Jazz. We should only allow the good guys to have them. Hang on a minute…….it’s the good guys that don’t want them 🙂

  44. Boadicea
    November 16, 2015 at 12:11 pm

    Jazz – my comment was regarding your visit to your MP. I will point Bearsy to the add-in (he’s the programming whizz around here) and no I don’t think it is presumptuous. I edited one of my comments earlier and thought how lucky I was that I could do that.

    Gazoopi – don’t think about it – it might come back. And you are right – the ‘Good Guys’ don’t want the guns…

  45. November 16, 2015 at 12:17 pm

    Just to add 2pennuth to editing comments. I often like to go back and edit spelling mistakes or minor wording . It is a treat when on a blog of my own which I have edit access to. Yes, please if possible.

  46. sheona
    November 16, 2015 at 1:10 pm

    It is very worrying to read that the Belgian police admit they lost control of the Brussels suburb of Molenbeek. But I think there is a danger that the British/French/German and other European police forces have also lost control of certain areas which muslims claim as their territory. This is where we have to say that more than enough concessions have been made to muslims and that now would be a good time to stop these concessions. No more mosque building, no burqas on the streets, no cancelling Christmas or Easter displays or activities for fear of offending. Some French local councils controlled by the FN have stopped offering an extra alternative dish in school canteens on days when the main dish is pork. The alternative always used to be a vegetarian option and everyone managed with that. No reason to bow to muslim tradition since no one ever bowed to kosher and there were no Jewish complaints. The mayor of Nice has recently been refusing to celebrate the marriages of muslim couples who turn up with rowdy friends and family waving flags of other countries and shooting off guns. Civilised western democracies need to state loud and clear that they will run their countries following their traditions and culture and anyone who whines can do so elsewhere.

  47. November 16, 2015 at 1:36 pm

    Hang on a minute…….it’s the good guys that don’t want them 🙂

    But they might need them.

  48. November 16, 2015 at 1:40 pm

    ouch, so much being said on here, it feels in a way that this is more ‘interesting’ than the news, as it shows a lot of our common frustration with our governments on one hand and on the other our anxities about being dominated by a force (Islam) , that we do not agree with. NONE of us.
    I think, we are really in a pickle, especially Frau Merkel, as she with her roots does not want to be held accountable for more racism, but on the other hand cannot hold back the extremist parties in her country to come to power, if she sticks to her human convictions and allows further immigration and potentially causes more violence instead of the ever so wishful cultural integration. In my mind, we do not need the terminology right wing, left wing, nationalism, etc. any more, it needs to be replaced by something better, that reflects more the momentary political climate, which has world-wide impacts not only on Europe. Don’t ask me what a better vocabulary would be, I am not a linguist by all means and have not good enough connections to the policitcal class to change their vocabulary.
    No matter if right wing (like UKIP or Alternative fuer Deutschland or Jean Marie Le Pen’s party…) or left wing ( by the way I do not like the DIMINUTIVE LEFTY, this is very patronising and comes across as wanting to teach others , what is a better approach to govern people ) (like PODEMOS, Syriza, DieLinke ) these parties try to build on some sort of extremist and very populistic ideas to get a majority, therefore I am rather loyal to what we have now and appeal to support the current leaders to do their job which is very challenging at the moment.
    It seems as though innocent people are not protected well enough, therefore I fully agree with the BLOG in the first place (RIP). I might be called naive, but I am fully on your wavelength Janus, we cannot start and arm the population, all ‘good’ governments need to focus on our common enemy, which is clearly EXTREMISM and as a consequence TERRORISM, and I do not care a lot, if the terrorist is islamic, christian or anything else to be honest. I stronlgy believe, that finding labels to everything and everybody is very dangerous. It might help to locate some terrorist if we are lucky, but creates an even more antagonist climate than we are already in.
    I strongly feel with everybody who is somehow affected by these horrible casualties and these are certainly more than the directly mentioned number of people. Let’s hope, that all of this never comes into our lives.

  49. November 16, 2015 at 2:50 pm

    by the way I do not like the DIMINUTIVE LEFTY, this is very patronising

    Not patronising enough IMHO.

  50. November 16, 2015 at 3:01 pm

    FoE, thank you.

    Jazz, I hope we never need guns and hope everyone in the old world will resist the possibility during crises like this.

  51. November 16, 2015 at 3:24 pm

    Yes well I would prefer that we didn’t need guns, but I’m afraid that we might.
    I would like to be wrong.

  52. November 16, 2015 at 4:06 pm

    j606 – I might then call you RIGHTY, I hope you can do us proud by always being right and you always keep teaching/preaching to us for our benefits and the common overall good. This makes an easy day for me. Thank you

  53. November 16, 2015 at 5:48 pm

    Janus: and now you denigrate me by implying that I’m a dreaded Yank. I’m no more a Yank than you are a Dane — although Denmark isn’t a travesty of a sham. I simply attempt to empathise with people and understand why they do what they do, not simply prance about like a cockerel convinced of my supreme knowledge and intellectual/cultural superiority. Well, unless it’s with Yanks — everyone knows not to lump me in with the lot if they do not wish for retaliation. The US has a largely open border with Mexico and that is controlled, more often than not on both sides, by drug cartels. Weapons trafficking is among the many “business interests” they have. Organised criminal organisations in Europe also smuggle ex-Soviet and ex-Yugoslav weapons throughout the continent. How else could hand-grenades be used on the streets of Malmö? I can’t stand the US and I will remember your degrading insults — but the difference between the two of us is that I at least attempt to understand.

    Boadicea: and that was a fanciful point on their part. The UK is nowhere near becoming a predominantly Muslim country — they just make a lot of noise and pretend they have more to say than they really do. It’s telling that people of Indian extraction tend to be well-integrated. They have a high rate of inter-marriage and 70pc of British Indian women work. Economically and academically they are among the most successful. Those of Pakistani extraction languish at the bottom and largely live in mono-cultural neighbourhoods. Bangladeshis do much better but are still behind Indians. For Islam to survive as a credible creed it has to reform itself and Muslims have to decide if they wish to to languish at home and in the West or if they wish to grasp the nettle and make something of themselves and their societies. What we have to do is make it clear that we will no longer defer to them or let them do as they please. Political correctness must well and truly die.

    FoE: Merkel made a tremendous mess of things — as did Stefan Löfven. Both tossed out European and international laws concerning refugees and asylum. They were not perfect, but had they been taken seriously they would have largely worked. Instead, Europe is being flooded by opportunists. Those who need asylum the most — widowed mothers, persecuted religious minorities marked for death (Christians, of course — but the media won’t acknowledge that point. It might upset Merkel), the elderly, etc. are caught languishing in squalid camps in Turkey, Jordan and Lebanon but those who need it least are taking up space in Europe. Let’s not even start on the number of North Africans, Sub-Saharan Africans and South Asians, southern Balkan Slaves, etc.who have virtually no chance of being granted asylum but are stealing resources from those who need them convinced that they were given a carte blanche to do so. Both should resign in disgrace for the damage they have caused.I am similarly not attracted to AfD or UKIP, but centrist parties have to pull it together and show spine or they will lose the argument to radical parties. It’s horrifying when the only ones making sensible arguments in Germany are the likes of Sarah Wagenknecht or ALFA’s Bernd Lucke, The Bavarians might save the CDU/CSU yet, but Merkel will have to admit that she was in error which she is unlikely to do. Things can spiral out of control very, very quickly and good things that take many years to develop can be lost in an instant. I saw just how quickly things spiralled out of control in Trier and the growing nastiness/trepidation. Someone has to look like s/he is in charge and if moderates cannot muster the fortitude to be tough when necessary — and not attack people with valid concerns and fears as “racists” or “xenophobes” — they risk losing far more than they imagined.

    Sheona: I am fully in agreement with you. We’re still in the position of securing a largely peaceful resolution, but we must take action now and not defer it for politically correct considerations. Europe’s demons are never far beneath the surface. It’s best not to let them escape.

  54. November 16, 2015 at 6:05 pm

    Christopher, I don’t mean offend you and would be grateful if you would reciprocate. My highest horse is but a pose, innit?

  55. November 16, 2015 at 6:18 pm

    Janus: I would say getting on your high horse only makes you an easy target, but I don’t know how to use firearms. Smiley Thing.

  56. November 16, 2015 at 6:22 pm

    Didn’t your mother teach you anything? 😜🔫

  57. christinaosborne
    November 16, 2015 at 6:22 pm

    I never could quite understand why the term ‘racist’ and xenophobe’ were used as a pejorative!
    Always struck me as the common sense attitudes of a reasoning patriot.
    It is nearly always preferable to live with others who have the same values as yourself. Humanity is tribal, always was and always will be. Wishful thinking will not change that.
    I am quite happy to be both!

    Christopher, I too would be most unhappy to live in ‘Donner Pass territory’ without being tooled up! Never know who might want to eat you out there!!
    I rather think that it is impossible for any NW European to quite grasp the enormity of the rural West of the USA and the self reliance needed to actually live in some of the areas rather than visit as a tourist in high summer. The ability to function without electricity, running water etc for any length of time are well beyond the experience of most Europeans who are ten minutes from the nearest supermarket.

  58. November 16, 2015 at 6:24 pm

    Janus, English not being my first language, high horses and cryptic comments hurt my brain.:-)

  59. November 16, 2015 at 6:27 pm

    Just to add 2pennuth to editing comments. I often like to go back and edit spelling mistakes or minor wording . It is a treat when on a blog of my own which I have edit access to. Yes, please if possible. 🙂

  60. christinaosborne
    November 16, 2015 at 6:29 pm

    Once came across a road sign on a highway West out of Cheyenne in Wyoming. In the foothills of the Rockies.
    It went thus.
    If these gates are closed turn back, the nearest accommodation is in xxxxxx. Should you proceed we will make no attempt to find you but will recover your bodies in the spring.

    Always wished I had taken a picture of that, quite inconceivable to the denizen of any nanny state. Imagine the fuss if they planted them in Scotland!

  61. November 16, 2015 at 6:33 pm

    It has just occurred to me that the number of comments on here may be inversely proportional to the length of the blog.

  62. November 16, 2015 at 6:36 pm

    Janus: as with most things American, I gave it a go once or twice and quickly reverted to taking tea and listening to BBC Radio. Now if you excuse me, I must pop off to butcher’s to buy bangers for tonight’s toads in a hole!

    CO: manners are conditional, survival is imperative. People banded together in tribes for the sake of mutual support and ensuring the survival of the group. Inter-marriage has always been practised and is beneficial, but when competing tribes compete for the same resources strife inevitably ensues. The scarcer the resources, the nastier the battle will be.

    The most dangerous animals to contend with are two-legged, me thinks. Once one leaves major highways and roads behind there are very strange creatures to be encountered indeed! Some are the dregs of society hiding from responsibilities, others are the down-and-out with nowhere to go but no desire to depart this world, others are engaging in criminal activities. It isn’t uncommon for people to go hiking and stumble across drug labs or hundreds of thousands of marijuana plants. “Disappearances” happen only too frequently in such places. Banging on about “civilisation” is easy, but it means little when the nearest shop is an hour away and they’re not always able to procure more than emergency supplies!

  63. November 16, 2015 at 6:42 pm

    Oh dear. You renegade colonials will never learn. If you wanted wild and woolly you should have joined the scouts.

  64. November 16, 2015 at 7:11 pm

    Janus: hence my absolute lack of desire to live anywhere south of Canada! It’s always been a matter of oil and water for me. My temperament is best suited to the UK, Nordic countries and Japan. I much prefer calm, quiet order.

  65. November 16, 2015 at 7:12 pm

    Btw it’s been a while since the Chariot enjoyed so many commentson a blog. 😎

  66. November 16, 2015 at 7:14 pm

    You’re a right provocateur, aren’t you, Janus? 🙂

  67. November 16, 2015 at 8:04 pm

    Janus: I guess it was the R.I.P. that did it. It was a R.I.P.P.I.N.G. blog.

  68. November 16, 2015 at 8:05 pm

    I have only one experience of America, that fits to this discussion and is I am afraid rather the opposite from what you say Christina. I once climbed down the grand canyon (about 30 years ago) and was amazed about the danger signs telling you to be careful about not overheating or stepping down the wrong way, it was like telling little kids how to behave in rocky countrysides, seemed to me and my german companians quite ridiculously overprotective. But never mind everyone makes different experiences when being out and about, I guess this is what makes the different people of a human race attracted to one another or rather brings up the warning bells, depending on the point of view you are taking.

  69. November 16, 2015 at 8:14 pm

    frauohneeigenschaften

    j606 – I might then call you RIGHTY,

    By all means do. Although for your information Lefties in the UK regard right wingers as Fascists or Bigots. I suppose they consider those terms to be more insulting than ‘RIGHTY’ which is a bit feeble.

  70. christinaosborne
    November 16, 2015 at 8:23 pm

    The Grand Canyon is not the wild! Its one of the biggest tourist traps in the hemisphere full of visitors, security, pickpockets and the like. Don’t kid yourself, exactly what I mean. Most visitors cannot compute the difference between tourist locations and the truly wild, the lack of that ability has killed more than its fair share on this continent both in the past and still today. There is no cell phone reception in most of the Cordillera of the USA! There is no rescue.

  71. November 16, 2015 at 8:45 pm

    Mrs. O. No cell phone reception at my house either (after all it’s almost 50 miles from the White House) nearest reliable signal is in the parking lot of the local liquor store (2 miles) luckily, they also sell ammunition.

    Guns are like parachutes, if you really need one and don’t have one, you will probably never need one again.

  72. sheona
    November 16, 2015 at 10:44 pm

    Christina, if they planted such warning signs in Scotland they might deter the idiots who attempt to climb Ben Nevis when Storm Abigail is howling her way in. I do hope all those who have to be rescued because of their own stupidity get charged. There are areas in the Highlands where there is no mobile phone signal.

  73. November 17, 2015 at 12:49 am

    CO: in the high Sierra Nevada Mountains the California Highway Patrol make it clear that if people drive off the road all they will get is a death certificate. They will not expend any resources or put anyone else’s life in danger to save them. Even if they can see the wreckage they will not go after it.

  74. November 17, 2015 at 7:20 am

    Christopher, ‘You’re a right provocateur, aren’t you, Janus? :)’

    Well, maybe a bit to the right! Not a bleeding-heart liberal or (perish the thought) appeaser!

  75. November 17, 2015 at 8:17 am

    Janus: you’re either right or whatever is left!

  76. November 17, 2015 at 10:18 am

    C, you are right so what’s left? 😳

  77. christinaosborne
    November 17, 2015 at 5:17 pm

    Not a lot these days!

  78. November 17, 2015 at 5:31 pm

    Janus: normally, at this point I’d say “kangaroos” — it’s an amusing way to say that I am at a loss.

  79. November 17, 2015 at 7:19 pm

    That great British paradox
    If you drive on the left you are right
    and if you drive on the right you are wrong

    Incidentally, I am one of those people to whom Christopher was referring earlier. I certainly have my reasons for my prejudice towards Jewish people; learned rather than instilled. As a rule I tend to avoid them, an approach that works well for me and them.

    I am often amused by the double standards displayed by so many people when it comes to racism and other forms of prejudice. Prejudice is a very sensible and logical human condition. I sincerely believe that the vast majority of members of the anti-apartheid movement and similarly minded folk, never appreciated the irony of the song, “I have never met a nice South African”

  80. November 17, 2015 at 8:02 pm

    OK guys let’s make that blog to 80 comments…As we found so many ‘alleyways’ to chat, I come back one more time to the original subject of RIP. I find it quite amazing what I find from friends and family on Facebook saying, that we should not change our personal logo into the french tricolore, because there are people dying as well in Kenia. I need to state here, that I feel truly connected to my christian and european heritage and therefore strongly believe, that everybody should care about their fellow countrymen and then to anyone in Europe and furthermore to anybody who shares similar christian values. There is a ranking which is justifiable and it does not go against any human ethics or morale.

  81. November 18, 2015 at 10:13 am

    Sipu, I don’t understand how you can generalise your antipathy towards Jews when some people you met/know aroused such feelings.

    I have been upset by (variously) Christians, Buddhists, Jews and others but that hasn’t coloured my attitude to all their fellows.

  82. November 18, 2015 at 11:45 am

    ‘ere ‘ere. It seems that it is not only really bad poetry that we have in common 🙂

  83. November 18, 2015 at 7:08 pm

    Hi Janus, I was going to respond properly to your comment, but I ran out of time. I will try again soon, I hope.

  84. christinaosborne
    November 18, 2015 at 7:50 pm

    Janus I think one is way beyond being ‘upset’ here.
    Personally my antisemitic stance is the result of violation, not being ‘upset’.
    Try walking a mile in someone else’s shoes! And tread carefully!

  85. November 19, 2015 at 6:06 am

    CO, that was a bit cryptic. Can you enlarge?

  86. christinaosborne
    November 19, 2015 at 7:14 am

    No!
    Sometimes life ain’t quite what you expect!
    One moves on, but one never forgets or forgives.

  87. November 19, 2015 at 10:54 am

    Understood.

  88. November 19, 2015 at 5:51 pm

    CO – I think we need to forgive and move on, otherwise the Arab countries will never forgive us either in having invaded them. But of course on a personal level I don’t know what your bad experience was all about, though I would never dare to make a jugdement.
    PS: I have formed my own opinion to the political proceedings caused by the Paris attack and decided to publish my own blog, but bear with me for a day or two, I need to revise my first draft tomorrow….

  89. christinaosborne
    November 19, 2015 at 7:20 pm

    FoE Whilst I can understand that your modern Christianity requires you to forgive etc., mine is a more atavistic militaristic sort!
    I would launch the next Crusade and make it the last. Glaze them into their damned desert for once and for all! Glad to see Putin is having a go at it with the frogs. Very stupid of the ragheads to kick the bear!
    About time the USA and quivering Whitehall got in on the act.

    Anyone who blows up dogs…………………………………………

  90. November 19, 2015 at 11:09 pm

    FoE: you’d be surprised by how many Muslims are still not over the liberation of Spain in 1492 and how many dream of restoring al-Andalus! Muslims are not Western. The Chinese aren’t, either — but so long as you stay out of their way they’re not interested in causing problems for anyone. Indians aren’t Western, but they also prefer to be left in peace and none of India’s three indigenous religions — Hinduism, Jainism and Sikhism — are a threat to the West. In fact, followers of all three are overwhelmingly model immigrants and tend to do incredibly well, often better than indigenous populations, in fact. Islam cannot co-exist with anything. It must always dominate. Unless you understand this, you will never understand Islam. Islam can’t even really co-exist with Islam!

    CO: here’s a little-known detail: the Crusades were only launched after Muslims brutally invaded and occupied 60pc of Christendom and were a direct response to continued Muslim threats to Europe itself. The reason why Spain and Portugal were broadly exempt from the Crusades was that they were fighting to liberate Iberia from the usurpers. So long as Barack “I will always stand with Muslims” Obama is president that will not happen. When Cameron is showing more spine…

  91. November 19, 2015 at 11:25 pm

    I agree partly Christopher, but for me there is a fundamental difference between a normal muslim and the one’s who still want to restore al-Andalus or talk about the Schlacht auf dem Amselfeld. You are right Islam does not co-exist with Islam, but perhaps Obama believes he is able to help, I don’t know, but certainly purely recognising this fact as common knowledge does not help anybody to solve the problem of a terrorist organisation called ISIS.

  92. November 20, 2015 at 12:56 am

    FoE: yes, and between 1932-1945 there was a fundamental difference between the non-Nazi majority of Germans or the non-Fascist majority of Italians and the Nazi and Fascist minorities. Even Germans and Italians who didn’t necessarily agree with Nazism or Fascism were willing to go along with it to keep harmony. What lessons have we learned from Egypt, Libya, Turkey and Lebanon? Islamist parties do well and majorities of Muslims believe that Sharia law should be the law of the land. Thus, much like the Nazis between 1930-1933 and the CCP in China prior to the late-1950s, what separated them from the “establishment” was a matter of degree, not fundamental difference. Obama is a cretin who has made it clear that the only thing he will not defend is Western Civilisation. How does one deal with something like ISIS? Here’s an idea — support those with the means of defeating them, be it the Peshmerga or the fragrant al-Assad. The likes of Hussein, Qaddafi and al-Assad aren’t cuddly, likeable people but they were the only ones able to keep their states together. Libya and Iraq will unlikely ever function as united states again and Syria has utterly collapsed.

  93. November 20, 2015 at 9:52 am

    Christopher, I have no proof that Obama will not defend western civilisation, in my mind he is constrained between the US constitution and the current state of affairs (ISIS) in the best interest of the american people. He is only one member state, which stands for western civilisation and culture, in my mind you make all of that sound too easy and if I am totally honest I find it difficult to believe as you describe Obama and I would gladly listen, if you can provide me a relevant link to a speech, in which he says that. It is as well quite dangerous to constantly trying to compare the different scales of right’s and wrongs, this seems rather unscientific and not looking for real truth.

  94. christinaosborne
    November 20, 2015 at 3:46 pm

    I have to agree with Christopher. Obama has no intention of supporting Western Civilisation, never has, from the beginning he has tried to cosy up to the muslim world, only to be firmly rebuffed. He got that wrong from the start!
    There is no specific speeches that can be identified, just the constant dripping on the stone, accusation of ‘racism,’ ‘sexism, ‘religionism’ all the usual PC crap, endlessly.
    No wonder the frustrated support Trump in worryingly increasing numbers. Much more of this crap and we will get one nutter replacing a weirdo!

  95. November 20, 2015 at 4:58 pm

    FoE: Obama isn’t constrained by the Constitution. I take it you haven’t heard his infamous “pen and telephone” comment? He admitted that he will do as he pleases and do so by executive fiat without consulting anyone. It’s been a constant dripping on the stone, as CO said. Take, for example, his recent response to the attacks on Paris. He never once showed any sort of emotion save when opposition governors refused to take Syrians unless they went through stricter scrutiny. He admitted in his autobiography that if political winds would change, he’s always side with Muslims — no matter what.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/424738/foreign-policy-community-organizing

  96. November 21, 2015 at 1:31 pm

    Christopher, thanks for carrying on with this blog, I find it highly important and part of the democratic decision process to build an opinion, that you consider honest and true. I read through the article, but , sorry to say –
    like any other newspaper, magazine in the world, it is rather biased and supports the viewpoint of a certain category of people and therefore it is not good enough for me to make up my mind about the strength and waeknesses of the Obama government. Please take my stands from that extract of the Wiki

    National Review (N.R.) is a semimonthly magazine founded by author William F. Buckley, Jr., in 1955 and based in New York City. It describes itself as “America’s most widely read and influential magazine and web site for conservative news, commentary, and opinion.” ==> though it is conservative news and therefore biased and therefore accept, that I reserve judgement when discussing internal affairs regarding american politics. In principle, I understand the concept of parity, but I need to study it a bit better before making comments on that.

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