Home > General > Er vi alle Danmark også?

Er vi alle Danmark også?

Another shooting attack — a Swedish cartoonist was targeted at a speaking engagement in Copenhagen. Soon after, a synagogue in the Danish capital was also targeted. The attacker was a Muslim of Arab ethnicity born-and-raised in Denmark.  Bibi has officially encouraged European Jewry to emigrate to Israel. Considering their declining security in Europe and the increase in official tolerance for anti-Semitism, he isn’t entirely incorrect in assessing that the climate in Europe is growing increasingly hostile. After all, a German magistrate ruled recently that fire-bombing a synagogue is an act of protest, not anti-Semitism and an Austrian magistrate ruled that chanting “death to Jews” is a form of legitimate protest against Israeli policies.

Recently I have thought of this frequently. In Trier there is a small alley adjacent to the main market square — “Judengasse”. All buildings are from the 17th century. Slightly seedy these days, it was once the entrance for the city’s formerly prominent Jewish Quarter. Five minutes from it is a car park where a building once stood — the processing centre for Trier’s Jews in the 1940s. Of the over 300 processed, virtually all died. Ten minutes from that is the former Trier Gestapo headquarters. Yet, the attitudes that should have been consigned to the past have been brought back — largely imported, bolstered by indigenous bigots. If this is any indication for the future, then the past half-century of peace, prosperity and relative civility will soon be but a memory.

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Categories: General
  1. christinaosborne
    February 15, 2015 at 7:54 pm

    I lay the blame fairly and squarely on the governments of the day and yesterday that have allowed untrammeled immigration by the muslim hordes. Indigenous people have had their cultures put under threat, their jobs and homes taken by the incomers who appear to have more protection under law and PCitis than the locals. The Jews find themselves being under the unenviable situation where they are indigenous nationals but different to most of the populace. It is so much easier to persecute them than have a serious go at the muslims. Unfortunately they share a lot of the same dietary laws with the muslims which make them appear nearer to them than is the reality.
    Cultural swamping should never have been allowed in the first place. Were all immigration to be stopped dead and an active effort at repatriation ensued no doubt the whole situation would calm down, but it won’t happen because no one in the EU had the balls to do it!
    As such, the Jews are probably very wise to remove themselves.
    I do not think it is bigoted to want your own country’s culture to remain intact and provide a similar environment for your children to what you had yourself.
    I also think that to expect peace to ensue in Europe for any length of time is unrealistic at best. Just look at the history of the place! Leopards do not change their spots that easily! As usual the stupid do not see it coming, those with a degree of perspicacity move themselves to where they want to be before it happens. Always have.
    One of humanity’s ways of Darwinian selection.

  2. February 15, 2015 at 8:35 pm

    The EU is making a parody of itself. The more powers it takes, the weaker it truly becomes. It cannot function and all it is doing is provoking the rise of radical parties. Syrica in Greece, Podemos in Spain. It is also becoming quite good at making itself hated and reviled by peoples who once supported it as a vehicle for peace (Germany, the Netherlands), for the hope of inclusion and stability (Italy, Greece, Spain, Portugal), economic pragmatism (Denmark, Sweden, Finland) or even self-interest (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, etc). I doubt that the PCers have much time left to press their case — their so-called “wards” have revealed their arguments to be utterly absurd.

    I am saddened at Bibi’s comments not because he is wrong, but because he is only too correct. Europe’s Jewry is European — it is a part of our cultural fabric and has been so almost from the beginning. The Jews have done much to benefit their host-countries. When the Spaniards and, later, Portuguese under Spanish-duress expelled the Jews, the Dutch took them in and in turn helped to build the Netherlands into arguably the greatest trading nation of its day. While there are some Muslims who are nice enough and get on with their lives, I can’t help but wonder if Islam’s impact on Europe has been largely negative on balance.

    I hope for peace, but it seems as if we’re in for Powell’s prophesied “rivers of blood”. Things will get interesting very soon in Europe.

  3. sheona
    February 15, 2015 at 10:44 pm

    I wonder how long it will be before European democracies ask themselves “Do we really need this bunch of primitives?”

  4. sheona
    February 15, 2015 at 10:49 pm
  5. February 15, 2015 at 10:57 pm

    At this point, Sheona, not much longer. People have been growing uncomfortable with this for some time and an up-tick in violent behaviour will only compound anxieties. The mayor of Rotterdam hit the right tone.

  6. February 15, 2015 at 11:06 pm

    I also fear that things will get worse — much worse — before they get better. With ISIS-supporters slowly returning to Europe, more attacks will be carried out. The PCites could well get the opposite of what they had intended — pent-up retaliation resulting in an even less liberal climate. Such is already increasingly the case in the Netherlands.

  7. February 16, 2015 at 2:07 am

    On a pedantic note – if our cherished francophones are to be believed – the title should read ‘foelger’ rather than ‘er’.

    But more to the point, Denmark is genuinely shocked by these atrocities, affected far more noticeably than London where terrorists have been active for generations. People’s response is ‘How dare they disturb this peaceful paradise?’. And I do expect a social backlash against the muslim population at large especially among young people.

  8. February 16, 2015 at 7:23 am

    Janus: some time ago I asked my Viking-type chum what my prospects were in Denmark socially and professionally. He said that as I would never stand out visually there’d be less concern and, once it was established that I was by no means a Muslim, I’d not face an undue amount of social isolation. To an extent, there was discomfort with this for some time — in a very passive-aggressive way — but it existed. Now, as you say, it’s far more likely to hot up. Things by some accounts are growing less cuddly in Sweden as well.
    Perhaps the potential backlash is the result, at least in part, of Nordic social solidarity. Britons have placed a higher value on eccentricity and individualism than the Nordics.

  9. February 16, 2015 at 8:53 am

    And Denmaek never imported droves of foreign labour as Britain and Germany did. So unDanishness was rare until quite recently.

  10. sheona
    February 16, 2015 at 10:15 am

    Sorry Janus, you’ve lost me. Which title? I’m not bright first thing in the morning.

  11. February 16, 2015 at 10:22 am

    Er, Sheona, the title of C’s post! It says ‘Aren’t we all Denmark?’ So I thought ‘Don’t we all follow…..’.

  12. February 16, 2015 at 1:13 pm

    “Danishness” is also somewhat more flexible than social inclusion is elsewhere. Danish Jews were seen as Danes, not as outsiders despite the religious difference. People with German, French and English names do not warrant extra attention and are generally accepted as Danes so long as they and their families were born and raised in the country and speak the language natively. That a number of Muslims reject this potential for integration is thus taken far worse than marginalised populations in Germany, France or Britain.

  13. February 16, 2015 at 4:44 pm

    I think it does not matter what your ethnic, cultural or racial background is, if you set yourself apart and identify yourself as a member of a distinct group, you and that group will be subject to prejudice and persecution. That has been proved time and time again in history and in countless social experiments. Human nature is not going to change just because people say that it should. This is nature, not nurture. Multiculturalism will never work the way so many people claim they want it to.

    As long as Jews continue to set themselves apart as they have been doing since Moses took them out of Egypt, they will be discriminated against. The same will happen to Muslims in Israel and Christians in a Muslim country. It will happen to Europeans in Africa and Africans in Europe. It will happen to Orientals in the Occident and vice versa.

    I do not condone what is happening, but I am not surprised by it, just as I am not surprised when a young drunk girl in a tube-top and miniskirt walking the streets of Bradford at night is sexually molested. Nor am I surprised by the fact that my wallet will be stolen if I leave it on the dashboard of my unlocked car in a busy street. It shouldn’t happen, but it will and I know damn well that telling people it is wrong is not going to make a blind bit of difference.

    When somebody rejects my society in favour of his own, he is telling me that he believes himself to be superior. That is certain to cause resentment. If he belongs to a majority, I must swallow that resentment, however, if I belong to a majority, ordinarily, I would be able to do something about it. But the west has adopted a perverse approach of persecuting the majority and not just protecting the minority but actively promoting and discriminating in favour of it. It makes no sense and is unsustainable. Ultimately the majority will react and will take matters into their own hands. It may end in a political or class-based revolution as was the case in the US, France, Russia and elsewhere. Or it may end in genocide as was the case with the Kurds in Turkey, the Jews in Europe and the Matabele in Zimbabwe.

    You can build a dam wall to block the natural flow of a river. The dam may stand for many years, but it will eventually burst and there will be a flood.

    The philosophy of multiculturalism is a very flimsy wall trying to hold back a raging river of human resentment. The consequences of that wall bursting will be horrific.

  14. sheona
    February 16, 2015 at 4:50 pm

    But, Janus, I don’t understand Danish, so when I saw the reference to francophone, I was puzzled.

  15. February 16, 2015 at 5:29 pm

    Sipu: the Jews left Egypt for a very good reason. Even then, Jews were a people apart and their popular imagination was focused more on Canaan than it was on Egypt. Integration of Jews was not, however, only prevented by Jews. They were more often than not shunned and isolated, forced into ghettoes (the word “ghetto” originates from Venice and was the name of the area where Jews were legally obliged to live) and frequently persecuted. Tightly-knit communities were essential for survival. And Jews did attempt integration — other than the ultra-orthodox, most Jews do not stand out and largely do well in the societies they live in. But, as we can see by the increased migration of Jews from France to Israel in recent years, there is an ingrained survival mentality. In fact, Reform Judaism was developed to allow Jews to culturally assimilate. That didn’t prevent even secular Jews from being killed in the Holocaust.

    The US Revolution was also not class-based. In France, class concerned were dealt with before 1792. It became, instead, the tool of a fanatic minority to implement their vision of what France should be over the will of the majority. The Bolsheviks also never had anything resembling majority support. The only thing they had was a unified, passionate minority with an agenda against a large majority which was only united in their dislike of the Bolsheviks. Marxist historiography has largely been discredited.

    The only successful multicultural societies are those in which minorities “know their place” and don’t dare act up. Singapore is a classic example of this.

  16. February 16, 2015 at 8:42 pm

    Christopher, I am not sure what your point is, but I stand by mine; if you set yourself apart from the majority you will be persecuted, unless you are stronger than they are, as was the case with European colonialists. If the Jews are not careful, they will suffer another holocaust. The two ways for them to prevent that from happening are either for them to become more powerful than the majority, which they seem to be doing, or they cease being Jewish which they do not seem to be doing. Whatever the outcome, Jews will always have their detractors. The cycle of persecution will not end soon.

  17. February 16, 2015 at 10:32 pm

    My point, Sipu, is that the Jews have conceded everything but their Jewishness — their existence. Yiddish was largely spoken in the East. In France, French Jews spoke French. In Germany, German. In Denmark, Danish. In the Netherlands, Dutch. “If the Jews are not careful they will suffer another Holocaust”. This sounds like blaming the victim. The Chinese and Indians, by the way, did not persecute their Jews.

  18. February 17, 2015 at 4:13 am

    It is nonsense to say that they have conceded everything but their Jewishness. As for the Jews in India not being persecuted, it begs the question as to why the vast majority left for Israel. I confess I get irritated by trite remarks that make reference to “blaming the victim”. In my examples above I made it clear that sometimes the victim is tempting fate, i.e human nature.
    What I want to know is why do you suppose that Jews are persecuted to the extent that they are? Why are Jews picked on more than a body else, if indeed that is the case?

  19. February 17, 2015 at 7:25 am

    Jews deliberately separate themselves socially. Many do business exclusively with other Jews. They do not compromise.

    The victimisation of Jews continues – presumably because the vilprits identify grievances against their own social groups either at home or abroad. Whether that is ‘human nature’ or not, it seems to be on the increase.

  20. February 17, 2015 at 7:25 am

    That was ‘culprits’.

  21. christinaosborne
    February 17, 2015 at 3:51 pm

    Interesting that they have been persecuted by virtually everybody else.
    Their biggest problem is that they never know when enough is enough!
    One of the biggest irritants currently is the holocaust industry, a nice little earner. When will it be time to forget for those not remotely connected to it?
    Why should one have a guilt trip for one’s grandparents behaviour?
    All the continuing whining about being victims 75 years later does nothing to ensure smooth relations in Europe that is for sure.

    One wonders whether whining victimisation by any group becomes a self fulfilling prophesy.

  22. February 17, 2015 at 6:32 pm

    CO, I agree about the idea that guilt is to be inherited. Total nonsense. But it does fit with the sins of the fathers etc. It’s a religious tenet – like not being allowed to depict Allah. But not too many cartoonists have got round to lampooning the holocaust – yet!

    The trait of not knowing when to stop is akshully typically non-British. Not suggesting we are always balanced and considerate but we do tend only to overdo our eccentricities which are by definition harmless!

  23. February 17, 2015 at 8:32 pm

    Janus, you make a very good point about lampooning, or rather not lampooning, the holocaust. It is OK to offend the sensibilities of Muslims who believe passionately in the sanctity of their god and religion, to the point that they will become martyrs for it, but it is a criminal offence, in some countries, and very dangerous in many others simply to question whether the holocaust took place. Poor old Prince Harry got into huge trouble just for dressing up as a Nazi. Those same people who castigated him are the ones who so passionately support the free speech of Charlie Hebdo.

  24. February 17, 2015 at 11:41 pm

    Anti-Semitism is not a mysterious “disease.” As Herzl and Weizmann suggested, and as history shows, what is often called anti-Semitism is the natural and understandable attitude of people toward a minority with particularist loyalties that wields greatly disproportionate power for its own interests, rather than for the common good.

    http://ihr.org/other/anti-semitism-why-does-it-exist-dec-2013

  25. February 18, 2015 at 4:21 am

    Sipu: because the Jews are actually, on average, successful and well-adjusted. As soon as times are bad, Jews are always blamed. As for India — Israel has a better quality of life. Many are largely so assimilated into Indian life, anyway, that a Jewish community in India was really no longer viable. Much the same in China, really. Most had become essentially Han. The State of Israel is a magnet for Jews. It also actively supports immigration of Jews from abroad and makes the move a relatively easy process.

    Janus: the same with the Chinese, Indians, etc. Jews aren’t always likeable, but they’re productive and they don’t cause too many problems.

    CO: the only people who have made my life miserable about the Holocaust and the Second World War in general were good ol’ American boys and girls. Holocaust survivors showed far more grace and compassion.

    Jazz: the IHR is widely regarded as the world’s leading Holocaust-denial organisation. They have all the credibility of Iranian mullahs. Dregs of society, why anyone takes them seriously is beyond me.

  26. February 18, 2015 at 5:37 am

    So free speech is a relative concept! No wonder children grow up confused by grown-up concepts.

  27. February 18, 2015 at 6:27 am

    Janus: a relative concept? I’m not quite sure how that topic came up. People have the right to think and say what they please, but they don’t have the right to tell others what their opinions should be. Discomfort is part of living in a free society and is healthy — it forces people to face the fact that not everyone must agree or hold the same view. That doesn’t mean that we have to like or respect individual opinions, however, just the right to express and hold them.

  28. February 18, 2015 at 8:57 am

    It arose from the apparent truth that we can draw Allah but cannot lampoon the Jewish traditions! Healthy? Only if we accept double standards.

  29. February 18, 2015 at 9:11 am

    Janus: but what double-standard? How many Jews have killed people in Europe recently for lampooning Jewish traditions? Muslims, Jews and Christians alike have complained bitterly about their faiths and traditions being lampooned. The Chinese are constantly derided, Hindus and Sikhs freely mocked. The Sikhs, in fact, have been murdered for their faith in recent years in modern, Western countries. Yet how many Sikhs have launched terror attacks in retaliation? A few years ago a tacky, but telling, cartoon was rendered — figures from Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism and Christianity were having an orgy. How many violent protests came from this? How many bombings? How many shootings?

  30. February 18, 2015 at 9:13 am

    Christophertrier, Jazz: the IHR is widely regarded as the world’s leading Holocaust-denial organisation. They have all the credibility of Iranian mullahs. Dregs of society, why anyone takes them seriously is beyond me.

    Wherever the quote came from, it’s a pretty good summary of what happens to a minority which becomes disproportionately influential.

  31. February 18, 2015 at 9:25 am

    Others have done a better job of describing the situation without trying to justify genocide or denying that it happened, Jazz. The point, then, is envy — the dislike of Jews because of their success. When they were alienated outcasts, they were hated for their wealth. They could not participate in many economic endeavours, but they could be merchants and lenders. When they sought to integrate, they quickly took many high positions of power because they are bloody brilliant. Their religion obliges them to be literate and to approach things from every possible angle. At times grating, true. At times over-bearing, true. But successful.

  32. February 18, 2015 at 9:50 am

    ………When they sought to integrate, they quickly took many high positions of power because they are bloody brilliant. Their religion obliges them to be literate and to approach things from every possible angle. At times grating, true. At times over-bearing, true. But successful.

    But not brilliant enough to stay out of trouble.

  33. sheona
    February 18, 2015 at 9:53 am

    I quite agree, Christopher. Muslims seem to envy everything such as western technology and democratic freedoms. They want to make use of such technology, particularly for the purposes of terrorism, but are resentful of the fact that years of reciting the Koran in a madrassah does not produce people capable of inventing or developing such technology.

  34. February 18, 2015 at 10:04 am

    Jazz: part of the reason why the “White Australia Policy” was adopted was fear that the Chinese would overwhelm Australia with their work-ethic. A fair amount of anti-Japanese racism in California, including laws prohibiting those born in Japan from owning land, was a result of the Japanese being able to squeeze more out of poor-quality land than others were able to produce from infinitely superior land. That the Japanese had learnt to survive in a densely-populated island-nation with infamously thin soil was entirely irrelevant. The Japanese minority were too successful and, thus, worthy of hatred. The same line of reasoning is used against ethnic Chinese in Malaysia. The Chinese are too wealthy, they are too successful — so they must be kept in check, forced to “mind their place” by the Bumiputera. It is easier to hate people for being successful despite harsh conditions than it is to actually be successful.

    Sheona: according to conservative interpretations of the Qur’an, innovation is anti-Islamic as it challenges the validity of portions of the Qur’an. It is telling that Islamic countries have done best either by eschewing anything but the most liberal interpretations of Islam — Kemalist Turkey, not the current idiocracy, and Pahlavi Iran. The success of the Gulf, interestingly, is less the result of indigenous innovation than it is the result of creating an extremely conducive environment for outsiders to conduct business. It is, thus, no small wonder that the only truly innovative country in the region is the State of Israel.

  35. February 18, 2015 at 10:19 am

    Christopher, you’re just making my point for me. The Japs and Chinese just get on with it and don’t whine about persecution. Which is why they get my respect.

  36. February 18, 2015 at 10:25 am

    Jazz: roughly half the Chinese population of Malaysia has emigrated and they do complain about their situation. In fact, the vast majority of emigration from Malaysia is ethnically Chinese. Learning about anti-Japanese and anti-Chinese policies in the past if part of California’s school curriculum. Many Japanese who were incarcerated also went to Japan, even those born in the US.

  37. February 18, 2015 at 10:38 am

    Christopher, the Jewish State of Israel has cleared out non-Jews from land not granted to Israel, if you want an example of extremism. Those people not surprisingly have ben supported by unacceptably extreme muslim groups. Consider the Western attitude: double standard!

  38. February 18, 2015 at 10:45 am

    Janus: of course, and Iraq, Yemen, Algeria, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Libya in effect forced their Jewish populations to leave. The difference is that the Israelis integrated displaced Jews, the Arabs keep playing victims. People are hypocrites. Only the successful are hated.

  39. February 18, 2015 at 10:46 am

    Jazz: roughly half the Chinese population of Malaysia has emigrated and they do complain about their situation. In fact, the vast majority of emigration from Malaysia is ethnically Chinese. Learning about anti-Japanese and anti-Chinese policies in the past if part of California’s school curriculum. Many Japanese who were incarcerated also went to Japan, even those born in the US.

    Well I don’t hear them complaining much which is more than I can say for others. Nevertheless I accept the general point which brings us back to this…..

    “…….. …the natural and understandable attitude of people toward a minority with particularist loyalties that wields greatly disproportionate power for its own interests, rather than for the common good.

    And it’s worth reminding ourselves that the word natural means “existing or derived from nature”. So it’s probably wise to live accordingly.

  40. February 18, 2015 at 3:01 pm

    Yet the Dutch and Danes didn’t have many problems with that and did well with their Jewish populations. In cases where Jewish populations have historically been well-treated, at least relatively so, such as China, India, the Netherlands, Denmark or the USA, Jewish populations are well-integrated into the fabric of society and many Jewish leaders worry that they might well eventually blend so perfectly that they cease being Jews. That Chinese and Indian Jews have gone to Israel indicates only that the majority of their population were so acculturated that they no longer constituted a distinct group. In places where they were persecuted, they held together much more tightly. And, Jazz, no amount of quoting a Holocaust-denial organisation bent on white-washing Nazi crimes is going to change my position on this.

  41. February 18, 2015 at 3:14 pm

    Once again, C, displaced Arabs are hardly alone in playing the victim card! Israel’s pr is heavily reliant on it.

    As far as financial success is concerned I cannot bring myself to accept it as a criterion for judging people’s behaviour from a moral standpoint.

  42. February 18, 2015 at 3:59 pm

    Janus: one of my Jewish friends, a former Israeli commando and grandmother, likes to joke that no one is better at guilt trips than a Jew. She also joked that the reason why Jesus was a Jew was because only a Jew would come back from the dead after 2000 years to make a point. She also says “ask 3 Jews a question and get 5 opinions”. The Jews are no angels, but they’re not devils, either — they’re human.

    Financial success is rarely a sign of superior morality, whatever Calvinists might hold. My point was that on average, Jews have done better than most and contributed a great deal to their host societies. Most Jews are also not wealthy, some are utterly destitute.

  43. February 18, 2015 at 5:16 pm

    And, Jazz, no amount of quoting a Holocaust-denial organisation bent on white-washing Nazi crimes is going to change my position on this.

    I’m sure it won’t.

  44. February 18, 2015 at 5:28 pm

    I should also add that that organisation is illegal in Germany. Pushing their views can cause me problems.

  45. February 18, 2015 at 8:07 pm

    Well we wouldn’t want you to get locked up.

  46. February 19, 2015 at 7:33 am

    “Anti-semitism is nothing but the antagonistic attitude produced by non Jews in the the Jewish group. This is a normal social reaction”

    Albert Einstein

  47. February 19, 2015 at 7:48 am

    What did he mean by the ‘Jewish group’, jl?

  48. February 19, 2015 at 12:11 pm

    To be honest Janus, I’m not absolutely sure. I took it in a wider sense.
    I think that wherever there is a wealthier majority in a society, there will be a minority who feel that the rules are unfair and biased against them. Would be leaders of those minority groups have always magnified these perceived or invented differences to try to gain power. The protagonists in the resulting conflict will always accuse the other of some type of “……ismistic” behaviour. As the man said “This is a normal social reaction”
    Sad but true.

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