RIP Maggie

Like her or not Margaret Thatcher has died.

She would not have allowed the country to get int his state, nor would she keep changing her mind like the present lot of whimps

Author: ricksrant

I am perfect, well I think so and I am never wrong so it must be true.

105 thoughts on “RIP Maggie”

  1. I would type more on the matter, but I am too busy polishing my tap shoes so I can dance a jig on the hags grave. Good riddance.

  2. While Baroness Thatcher made her share of mistakes and at times went too far she
    was a great leader for a great nation. She halted economic decline and set the country
    on a course for a better future. Her rise and life spoke more about empowerment and
    meritocracy than every volume, every tract of Neo-Marxian, Gramsci-infused bollocks.

  3. Ferret, do you remember some years ago when an unpleasant blogger announced your demise on MyT? You received lots of tributes before the truth was revealed, even from some who did not care much for you. What a pity you could not have had the decency to do the same for Lady Thatcher. If you can’t say anything pleasant, don’t say anything.

  4. Ferret: I expect you will find that very few other Charioteers agree with you. She did not get everything right, but this country would now be a basket case like Greece or Spain without her.

  5. I can understand that supporters of King Arthur Scargill would not mourn maggie’s passing. But I am not one of them. And I supported the ‘poll tax’ which was an attempt to avoid so many residents of the green and pleasant land getting a free ride. Maggie restored pride to our country.

  6. Whilst not agreeing with her killing the coal industry in the UK just to ‘get’ Scargill. She at least made up her mind and went for it right or wrong, that I admired. Vacillation, U turns, lies and obfuscations such as we have from the current shower of total creeps is utterly contemptible.
    Can you imagine the current lot giving away the Falklands? They would now if they thought they could get away with it!
    Ferret have to agree with sheona on this.

  7. The BBC apparently on their mobile site reported that Margaret Thatcher had died following a “strike” which was either a typo or a Freudian slip.

  8. Christina, it was really Heseltine under John Major who killed off the last of the deep mines. But many of these were uneconomic by that time. There is a story in Ayrshire, my father’s region, that coal was being transported through an underground tunnel linking two pits, I think Killoch and the Barony, to show that both were equally productive. Of course it has now been demonstrated that Scargill wouldn’t have recognised the interests of his members if he’d tripped over them.

  9. There was still plenty of coal in the UK, the Nottingham field and the S. Wales anthracite field. She closed down the Welsh which was reopened by private interests and is still going strong! When I used to buy coal for my range I always specified Welsh, much higher calorific value than the stony crap imported from Poland and Russia. Someone was making a fortune importing crap whilst our own resources were being ignored and still are to a great degree.
    I know this is true, the anthracite field is open cast I have seen it working with my own eyes and I know people who still work there. But she closed it. Strange how it makes a profit these days!!!

  10. Hee hee, our lot obviously weren’t too keen on her, this from the front page of my daily read

    The ANC said her passing signalled the end of a generation of leaders who ruled during a very difficult period characterised by the dynamics of the Cold War.

    “Her tenure as prime minister redefined British politics and public administration and these impacted greatly on European politics and governance.”

    The ANC said it had been on the receiving end of her policy with her refusal to recognise the party as representing South Africans‚ and her failure to isolate South Africa after apartheid had been described as a crime against humanity. However‚ it acknowledged she had been one of the strong leaders in Britain and Europe.

    I liked and admired her, RIP Maggie.

  11. Maggie may have halted economic decline, but she also brought in an era of selfishness.

    Maggie may have stuck to her guns – but far too many of her policies were based on ideology and not on practicalities and compassion. She was determined to smash the unions, and they certainly needed reigning in – but she failed to see that the working man / woman needs support against unscrupulous employers.

    Maggie managed to raise herself from a grocer’s daughter to a Baroness, but she failed to see that not everyone is capable of doing that.

    RIP. We won’t see her like again – and I’m not sure that that is such a bad thing.

  12. Boadicea :

    … but she also brought in an era of selfishness.

    I think Ferret’s comment and the behaviour of these people here,http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/9980773/Margaret-Thatcher-dies-Police-shut-down-Brixton-celebrations.html , not to mention the behaviour of Union members and the likes of Red Robbo, demonstrate that nastiness and selfishness were always present in the character of post War Britain. Maggie Thatcher just put it to good use rather than allow it to destroy the country which is what her Labour predecessors had been doing. Denis Healey’s desire to “tax the rich until the pips squeak” was not the wish of a charitable person, but that of a mean-spirited, envious and shorted-sighted left wing ideologue, or, what is known today as a socialist bigot.

  13. Red Robbo. Wasn’t he later found to have been in the pay of Moscow, like some other union leaders?

  14. Nastiness? Selfishness?

    The hag created the greedy selfish banker/trader mentality. She started the rampant privatisation of the family silver which sees us all paying fat cats for services we cannot do without.

    I did not expect much in the way of agreement hereon because most of you did very well out of her evil.

    Sheona, I have always detested the woman and made no secret of it. Would it be the decent thing to now pretend to be sad at her demise? As for the street parties Sipu, I suspect you will see plenty more of them. You can even order a party pack online. Also when the “Not State” but costing just as much funeral happens, expect to see people in full party mode lining the streets and heaven help the rozzers who try to stop them.

  15. Not sad, Ferret, just silent for the moment. I’m still trying to work out how I benefited from “her evil”. Were you the only person not to benefit?

  16. Sipu

    I read your link – I lived in Brixton at the time of the Brixton Riots – and my mother was a Tory Councillor in Brixton at the time. The riots had nothing whatsoever to do with the ‘nastiness and selfishness’ of the lower classes – or with Maggie T’s policies. That Maggie has become a symbol of the oppression of the poor does not surprise me – she took away many of the safeguards that protect the poor from the nastiness and selfishness’ of the rich,

    Ferret

    I voted for Maggie because she promised to do something about the fact that many people (myself incuded) on benefits were better off than those who worked. I assumed that she would raise the tax-thresholds to make it more economically advantageous to work than to live on the dole.I t is a measure of her failure to deal with this that the UK Government is still trying to resolve this problem

    Her sale of the ‘family silver’, condemned by Harold MacMillan, has, indeed, put the necessities of life in the hands of those who simply want to make a profit from those least able to pay. I am no Socialist – but I do believe that Governments should ensure that the necessities of life should be affordable to everyone.

    I agree. It would be totally hypocritical for you to pretend to feel other than you do about Maggie’s demise. She wrecked the lives of many people – and never showed one ounce of compassion for thei fate. Why should anyone pretend to be sad at her death .

  17. “The hag created the greedy selfish banker/trader mentality. She started the rampant privatisation of the family silver which sees us all paying fat cats for services we cannot do without.”

    Of course Ferret, everyone before then was the epitome of virtue, weren’t they? Do you remember how long it used to take to get a phone connected before BT was privatised? There was no family silver to privatise, just rust bucket industries.

  18. I genuinely fail to see how the death of Margaret Thatcher can be a cause for celebration for people like Ferret who held a deep hatred for the woman. I think few rational people, if there are any amongst her more extreme detractors, would argue that Robert Mugabe has done more damage to Zimbabwe than Lady Thatcher ever did to Britain. So it is reasonable to ask in comparison how I, a Zimbabwean, would react to Mugabe’s death. Well, that would depend on how and when it occurred. Unlike Lady Thatcher who left office nearly 23 years ago, Mr Mugabe still clings to power as greedily and corruptly as he seized it in 1980, ironically while Thatcher was Prime Minister (and so Ferret, I have suffered as a result of her policies, probably rather more than you have). Mr Mugabe’s death would signify a much needed change which I, along with most people in this country hope would be for the better, though there is no guarantee of that. For that reason, Mugabe’s demise would certainly justify a celebratory drink or two. On the other hand, should the forthcoming elections be won by the opposition party and should Mugabe be ousted from power before his death, then that event would be far more cause for rejoicing. The next step would be for him to be arrested and tried for his crimes and ultimately punished for them. But there should be no celebration in that. It is savagery to celebrate the suffering of others, even somebody as wicked as Mugabe. What any rational person should want is for the crimes to stop, the damage to be reversed as much as possible and for an example to be set to others that will dissuade them from offending in the same way. Once those events have been met, the criminal’s, in this case Mugabe’s death, should be neither here nor there. He would no longer be in a position to cause further evil. Human nature being what it is, one might feel a degree of euphoria at the death of an enemy, but it is uncouth and uncivilized to openly publicise the fact, just as it is wrong to surrender to a host of desires that one may feel from time to time. You may not be able to help feeling them, but you should have the decency, knowledge and self-control to refrain from acting them out.

    None of her enemies gains anything from Lady Thatcher’s death. Ferret’s life is not made better by it. He could argue that it was improved by her leaving office back in 1990 and he would have been justified in celebrating that event, but she has had no further active influence on the policies of the country for many years. At this point, he and those like him have nothing to gain. There is no logic to his celebrations. Such behaviour is bestial.

  19. Boadicea: as much as I respect and admire Baroness Thatcher I concur that she at times went too far with her policies. She made mistakes that would come to haunt the country, the poll tax included. I do not agree with the assessment that she fostered a culture of greed and selfishness. She encouraged personal effort and ambition, making something out of oneself. She also was a great believer in personal responsibility.
    The culture of greed, if anything, was rooted in the counter-culture of the 1960s-1970s. People no longer accepted obligations and responsibilities, they simply demanded their “rights” without the responsibility. Things really began to go wrong after New Labour took power. Socially, politically, and economically the worst excesses that continue to plague Britain played out under their rule and were encouraged by the former government. Thatcher is unfairly blamed for that.

  20. Sipu:

    It is without question that Gordon Brown did more damage to the country than anyone before or since. While I might breath a sigh of relief when he can no longer wreak his mayhem, I do not feel it would be appropriate to celebrate the fact.

  21. Hello Christopher, it has always surprised me that so many people objected to the alleged unfairness of the so-called poll tax. I fail to see how it was so. On the contrary, how is it fair that 5 wage-earning adults pay the same taxes as a single pensioner? Owning a big house does not make one rich. In any event the rich pay taxes in other ways. Mrs Thatcher wanted to bring equality to the Council Tax system. In principle, the Poll Tax was the fairest way of doing so. or at least it was certainly fairer than anything else before or since. Its weakness was that it was difficult to manage and collect in that there was a 20%/100% split with the unemployed paying 20% and the employed paying 100%. Also renters could default since the bills would arrive after they had left. But in principle, it was fair. I was on the bones of my arse in 1990, living in rented accommodation on a minimum salary and even I could see that.

    I do not believe that the tax itself was the cause of her downfall, but rather that it served as an excuse based on historical precedence attached to the sobriquet and nature of the tax, poor communication, a high degree of arrogance and the fact that it was introduced in Scotland ahead of England and Wales. The feckless electorate, urged on by the left wing press and supported by the traitors in her own party, headed by the likes of Heseltine and Howe who used it as an excuse to settle old hatreds and jealousies all used it as an excuse to get rid of her. If people were made to realise that they have a duty to pay for the services the receive, they and the councils who provide them might have a greater interest in ensuring efficient and cost effective delivery.

    Hello FEEG. I agree with you that Brown did considerable damage in his various roles as Chancellor and Prime Minister, but I also believe he had more integrity, misguided as he was, than the dreadful Blair, who I really do believe was entirely self-serving and fundamentally wicked. Blair should certainly be prosecuted for War Crimes and I hope he is arrested for such. Sadly he cannot be prosecuted for the damage to he did to the United Kingdom.

  22. Sipu: You are correct about Blair, but Brown and integrity?

    He wrote a treatise while a student union rep. on how to defraud the benefit system of the time, and was known for arriving at student parties with a large carrier bag containing a few empty beer-cans on the top and a couple of bricks to add weight. I would not dare to provoke Mr Mackie by saying that was just because he was Scottish, because most Scots are not like that. I think he was and is as evil as Blair.

  23. Perhaps integrity was the wrong word. Whatever it is, I do not believe that he was quite as evil as Blair. But again, I could be mistaken.

  24. During the 80s I was mostly in Wales and never voted conservative. I always vote Plaid Cymru when I am home. As such, I do not have a dog in the race! It always struck me that both the Unions and Mrs Thatcher both went far too far in their attempts to destroy each other. Neither party had the interests of the country at heart by the end of it.
    English politics always seem to be far too didactic and ideologically driven, none of them put the interests of the general public at the centre of their policy. They all wreak havoc generally for their own ends. Frankly I have thought for a long time the best thing would be a revolution and a total clear out. I have to say that the Welsh Assembly seems to do what it can to ameliorate Westminster policies. England has become a regrettably vicious and unpleasant place, maybe it was always like that and now it is allowed to come to the surface in so many ways.
    I find it very hard to believe that people should celebrate publicly their hatred of Mrs T. So very ugly , personally demeaning and so utterly vulgar. Rather personifies what England has become. Plain bloody nasty! It is becoming increasingly difficult to have any pride in one’s country of origin.

    To use a splendidly vulgar old expression. No politician, of any party, is worth a bucket of spit!

  25. Oh my Lord, have just seen the papers! Riots everywhere!
    Oh really. What utter humiliation for the UK. To what kind of depths has the UK sunk?
    Totally beyond.

  26. Hardly, Tina. Riots everywhere? I really don’t think so. Most of the “rioters” seem to be kids who weren’t even born when Thatcher was PM. Just an excuse for a party, in a few places. Unnecessary and tasteless but hardly country- wide.

    That said, Thatcher was far more popular abroad than she ever was here. There are many parts of the UK which have good cause to detest her policies.

    Frankly I fed up with the whole thing. I have no reason to rejoice at her death, although it seems to me to be a blessed release, but neither do I think she was some sort of saint.

  27. Well apart for the minor hyperbole, I think half a dozen riots are half a dozen too many!
    Agree with your last para, I think it over egging the pudding to lay on quite that funeral, I really don’t think she is to be compared with Winston Churchill.

    One seriously has to wonder why she died in the Ritz and where were her children? Sounds a totally dysfunctional family, one hell of away to go in more ways than one.

  28. Yes, Tina.

    Regarding the family. Her son and daughter are flying back for the funeral. Where were they indeed? I do hope that she felt at some point that her ambition and what she achieved was worth the damage to her family. It sounded like a very lonely although luxurious end.

  29. Araminta :

    Yes, Tina.

    Regarding the family. Her son and daughter are flying back for the funeral. Where were they indeed? I do hope that she felt at some point that her ambition and what she achieved was worth the damage to her family. It sounded like a very lonely although luxurious end.

    Hi Ara (and CO to whom you were respondiing..

    I am now angry. This is one of the most ungenerous, uncharitable, twisted and sad comments that I have ever read anywhere, any time,wherever or whenever I have roamed ever since I first strayed into the blogosphere.

    I like you both. I’ve always liked you, But this is total self-satisfying shit., In my opinion. Are you seriously trying to suggest that Mark and Carol were so traumatised by their mother that they chose not to be there at her alleged ‘very lonely’ end?

    May you be forgiven! Neither you nor I could or should have been there. I’ll bet you that her children were there in spirit if not in person,

    And that they will always wish that they had been and regret the fact that they were not.

  30. Christina, there are only riots in Brixton innit? ” Thatcher dissed us, man, and I need new trainers” is more the order of the day.

  31. Araminta, Lady Thatcher had been staying in the Ritz since she was last released from hospital. Strokes give no warning of their intentions and Carol and Mark could have been hanging around for a very long time waiting for something to happen. Perhaps their mother felt they should be getting on with their own lives.

  32. Hello Mr Mackie.

    Of course they were not expected to anticipate when their mother would die. This is quite impossible, but it has been widely reported for years, maybe wrongly of course, that the two children has issues with each other and their mother.

  33. Four-eyed English Genius :

    Sipu: You are correct about Blair, but Brown and integrity?

    He wrote a treatise while a student union rep. on how to defraud the benefit system of the time, and was known for arriving at student parties with a large carrier bag containing a few empty beer-cans on the top and a couple of bricks to add weight. I would not dare to provoke Mr Mackie by saying that was just because he was Scottish, because most Scots are not like that. I think he was and is as evil as Blair.

    Haw FEEG. Just spotted this, having finished fulminating about the Ara/CO Axis,

    Not true, He was never a Student Union rep. unlike many honest, upright citizens who I could name, were modesty to permit. He was a student politician. Others of us were amenity driven.

    But, to be fair, he always pitched in at our student parties with a reasonable number of cans or a two litre bottle of Chianti or similar.

    In truth, he was, in my opinion, sadly deluded and seriously wrong but never knowingly evil and not a bad guy, in all the time that I knew him at University. Blair is a different kettle of stinking fish, in my opinion.

    Moving on, I have to admit that, Gordon was total shite as PM.

  34. Sheona.

    I don’t think that was my point. It seems to me that living one’s last years in a hotel, however luxurious is rather sad. Of course her children are entitled to lead their own lives, but one cannot help but feel that Lady Thatcher may well have sacrificed a great deal for her career and her absolute devotion to her ideals and her country. May be not, but they do not, from reports I have read seem to be a close family.

  35. I am surprised at the lack of understanding displayed and excess of ‘conventional wisdom’ about Maggie’s home and family life. The ‘closeness’ of families varies enormously and is an unreliable guide to the relationships of their members. Has it not occurred to you that Maggie preferred to be at the Ritz so that she did not feel she was a burden to her family? My mother did not enjoy the Ritz but was determined not to be a burden.

  36. From what has been reported over the years neither of the children had much of a life to get on with! With two of them surely they could have spelled each other?
    All I can say is that anyone who thinks it is normal to die in the Ritz alone without family has my sympathy!

  37. Christina, I don’t think there is a ‘normal’. It was clear that Maggie was practically helpless for some time and probably needed 24-hour care and attention. Her choice to get it at the Ritz. Whether her children were allowed a vote, who knows?

  38. It was her last weeks that Lady Thatcher spent at the Ritz, in a comfortable suite all on one level, Araminta. Christina, think about it. Two adult children “spelling each other” waiting for mother to die.

  39. Ferret :

    Boadicea said it in one.

    The hag never gave a darn about my sensibilities, why should I care about hers?

    The lady is dead and doesn’t care one way or the other, Ferret. It’s my sensibilities you’re offending.

  40. Sheona and Janus.

    Yes, it was reported to be the last few months according to article I read. Frankly, although it may well have been her own decision, I find it unlikely. She had sadly deteriorated and I suspect she was not mentally capable of making such decisions.

  41. I like this quote from Daniel Hannan’s blog:

    “…….Where does it come from, this inchoate loathing? Anti-Thatcherites tell you that it’s because she closed down the old industries. (She didn’t, of course: she simply stopped obliging everyone else to support them.) Yet it must surely be obvious by now that nothing would have kept the dockyards and coalmines and steel mills open. A similar process of de-industrialisation has unfolded in every other Western European country, and the only parties that still talk of “reviving our manufacturing base” are Respect, the Scottish Socialists and the BNP………”

  42. Sorry OZ, I just cannot agree with you at all.

    Sipu, Sheona.

    I am sorry you are so disgusted by my opinion of this monster, but how would you feel if Mugabe died and the government fell over themselves to praise him? Used state funds to afford him a lavish funeral perhaps? Set up honours and epitaphs for him? How would you feel if they made him a peer for his services now?

    That evil woman intentionally destroyed my community and many others purely to prove she was “not for turning”. OK the unions needed to be slapped but she went wayyyyy too far. That was just one of her crimes.

    I’m with Minty MBE on the street parties however, they were kids who probably couldn’t have picked the evil hag out of a line up and were there simply to be controversial and cause trouble. The true message that there is a significant section of the country who hated the woman because they lost everything they had as a result of her idealist, blinkered belligerence and are further insulted by the fact that supposed short supply treasury cash is being squandered to honour a vile evil bully. People like me and there are a lot of us want it to be known that she is not the saint they all say she was in fact she was the exact opposite.

  43. This funeral is estimated to cost in the region of 10 million while todays meeting of the house will cost a fair packet too. The so called public servants consider it right that:
    “MPs returning from overseas visits can claim up to £3,750 in travel expenses” just to be in the house today. How are they going to travel to justify that? Go past Westminster twice right round the globe?

  44. Ferret :

    This funeral is estimated to cost in the region of 10 million while todays meeting of the house will cost a fair packet too. The so called public servants consider it right that:
    “MPs returning from overseas visits can claim up to £3,750 in travel expenses” just to be in the house today. How are they going to travel to justify that? Go past Westminster twice right round the globe?

    I’ve still got some Frizz-Eeze that Sheona gave me during my Olympic rant last year. Shall I send you a bottle?

    OZ

  45. I know the feeling, which is why those of us blessed with fur have to stick together, so to speak, .

    OZ

  46. She was without doubt the greatest Prime Minister of the 20th century. I don’t know what ferret is so exercised about, by my reckoning he was safely ensconced in the RAF during the Thatcher years. Can’t say I blame him, I’d much rather do that than go down a pit or work in a shipyard or steelworks.

  47. Interesting really, shows how divisive she really was, even on a site like this.
    Whilst I cannot approve of Ferret’s attitude I can’t really approve of the paeons of praise either!
    Over egging the pudding all round but then I have an extremely low opinion of politicians.
    Like most humans she made some good decisions and some very bad ones and had a very good run for her money and a lot of people made out financially like bandits but others lost the lot and never worked again under her premiership.
    She may have left the UK richer in money but it became a damned sight more poverty stricken in morality.
    Not sure I’d want to be in her shoes at the pearly gates!

  48. Ferret

    “I am sorry you are so disgusted by my opinion of this monster, but how would you feel if Mugabe died and the government fell over themselves to praise him? Used state funds to afford him a lavish funeral perhaps? Set up honours and epitaphs for him? How would you feel if they made him a peer for his services now?”

    This is precisely what will happen in Zimbabwe when Mugabe dies. It won’t happen in Britain because he is not a British politician. What is your point? I do wish you’d stop telling everyone that people are calling Lady Thatcher a saint unless you can give a link. I have not seen that word used. I don’t think she was a saint. Why should anyone? Exaggeration weakens your argument.

    Christina, I think it may be St Peter who is apprehensive.

  49. Well then.

    I had absolutely no idea that her internal policies had left such a rift in British life. Ferret had given me an idea when he wrote some years ago about the closure of industry in the north but I had absolutely no idea to what extent it had damaged villages, towns and cities and of course the devastating effect on families.

    And how could I ?

    Maggie was lauded here for her foreign policy, branding the ANC terrorists and while perhaps not being a friend to SA back in the day certainly not an enemy. Her strong stance against Communist expansion made her an ally of ours of sorts (Cubans in Angola and Mozambique) Not to mention her handling of the Falklands campaign.

    Her funeral should make for some good reality TV, I bet the crackpots are planning now how to disrupt the event as much as possible and get their 5 minutes of fame.

  50. The outpouring of vitriol concerning the death of Lady Thatcher comes from those on the opposite end of the political spectrum to hers. The nastiness is shocking and I am genuinely ashamed and disgusted that fellow Britons can behave in such a way. The argument that she created a selfish Britain does not ring true. That characteristic was clearly always present in certain sectors of society as demonstrated by this sort of behaviour. They celebrate their revolting behaviour and compete with each other to be ever more odious. It is not her allies who are behaving this way, it is those who consider themselves to have been her enemies. They have shown themselves to be nauseating, mean-spirited plebs. They sought compassion from her but are unwilling to offer it. Decent people do not require a quid pro quo when it comes to compassion. These people were not made unpleasant by Margaret Thatcher’s leadership, they were ever thus.

  51. Medicine often tastes bad. Britain needed it, badly. The nationalised industries were a mess, the civil service was complacent and inefficient, Britain’s international standing was at a post-war low – and the Argies, as usual, needed a slap.

  52. It is pointless trying to have a rational debate with lefties about MrsT. They’re not the brightest people to begin with, and she inflicted a humiliation upon them that was so total that it will never be forgotten or forgiven. Sure people got hurt, I was one of them, but I knew it was necessary, the unions had turned British shipping (and the shipyards) into a basket case, it was time to leave and do something else. I’m glad that I did, Mrs T did me a massive favour although it didn’t feel like it at the time.

  53. Jazz and Janus,

    I can only assume you are trying to wind me up. Yes there were problems with industry and something needed to be done. But the hag threw the baby out with the bathwater.

    Sheona,

    Re: the hags sainthood, read some of the comments made by the simpering wassocks in the HOC yesterday, it made me want to puke. At least 150 MPs had the decency not to attend the 2 million pound love in. If they have the right to publicly blow sunshine up her exhaust then I have the right to describe the other side of the coin.

    Sipu,

    I am not a “leftie” and please do not try to sugar-coat this disgrace with politics. That bitch made it personal, she targeted industry and set out top destroy it and everyone who worked in it. I see “Ding Dong the Witch is Dead” has rocketed up the digital charts and is now occupying the top spot. Quite the indicator of true public opinion I reckon. The nation is divided, very few are indifferent on the matter but for parliament to go so far over the top, spending tens of millions to honour this woman is just a further kick in the teeth to all those who endured her tyranny.

  54. ““Ding Dong the Witch is Dead” has rocketed up the digital charts and is now occupying the top spot. Quite the indicator of true public opinion I reckon.”

    With respect, dear Ferret, that is absolute bolleaux. It ain’t gnarled ex shipyard workers and miners downloading the song and if you want ‘public opinion’ set by a load of spotty yoof, chavs and hoodies then be my guest. None of them were even alive when Maggie was in office and it’s just another viral interweb fad to make their worthless, pointless lives look ‘cool’. Anyone who was probably lives in Islington on a public sector, six figure salary and will be ‘celebrating’ the event over a bottle of Krug and like minded friends. Personally, I’m polishing my dancing shoes for when Glenda Effin’ Jackson karks it. Now there’s one ugly, (no, make that fugly) nasty, disrespectful, attention-seeking hagbitch for you.

    And while we’re on this topic, I bet some yoof will take the opportunity to go out next Wednesday to get a new pair of trainers, a smartphone and a 42″ plasma screen – at night, after the shops have closed, in order to demonstrate their objections to ‘Faatcher’, innit. If so, I personally hope the Plod watch their Orgreave training videos again and respond accordingly.

    Oh bugger, where’s my Frizz Eeze.

    OZ

  55. OK Oz there will be some yoof who take the discord as an excuse to indulge in a slice of five finger discount retail therapy. But to suggest that it is only those taking advantage of circumstance who have anything against the hag and should be ignored is just wrong. How many of the 150 MPs who boycotted yesterdays “love in” were wearing Nikes and bitchin’ Burberry I wonder?

    She alienated an awful lot of hard working British people who now feel ignored by the current bunch of slobbering sycophants down in HOC HQ. It has cack all to do with left right or centre, it is about personal hardship, directly from the hand of this power crazed harridan.

    On a lighter note I see Tony Bliar (intentional) has warned Millibaby (leader of the opposition) not to oppose gubmint. WTF!!!!

  56. I classify myself as a Conservative with a Social Conscience.

    Thatcherism was Conservatism with no Social Conscience – and those of us that think that she dosed the problems of the UK, which there assuredly were, with arsenic rather than an antibiotic are not mindless lefties, but simply people who do not agree with the way she dealt with those problems.

    Sure the unions were out of control, certainly the civil service needed reform, there were all sorts of things that needed doing… But, as Ferret says – she went way over the top.

    To simply close down industries wholesale without setting in place alternative employment, left thousands in dire straits – she may have been able to ‘live with a few thousand unemployed’ – but what about those individuals who were left unemployed for years?

    To sell off public utilities – those utilities essential to life – so that prices could be raised to profit private individuals. – was nothing short of criminal. Don’t anyone try to convince me that private industry is any more efficient or cost-effective than public ownership – because it isn’t.

    To sell off social housing may have been a “Good Thing’ – but to refuse to allow Councils to build more houses simply ensured that those who could afford to buy houses to rent could charge exorbitant prices – while those who could never afford to buy their own homes would never have security of tenure. People need secirity.

    Maggie Thatcher’s hatred of Communism (and I can’t fault her on that!) led her to believe that any form of Socialism was the work of the Devil and that a Free Market was the panacea for all the ills of the UK. Well, it isn’t.

    Had Maggie studied a bit more history she would have known this – and she would have known that her Poll Tax would never work.

    Extreme Socialism doesn’t work – neither does Extreme Capitalism. And Maggie was an advocate of Extreme Capitalism.

    As to the notion that one should speak only Good of the Dead – what a load of *!*!* hypocrisy! Those who suffered from her policies have the right to express their opinions…

    However, I do think those who are using her death as an excuse to cause mayhem should be stamped on swiftly – comments are fine, violent action is not.

  57. ……….. I’m polishing my dancing shoes for when Glenda Effin’ Jackson karks it..

    I’m not. When the nasty old hag shuffles off I’m sure to have better things to do.

  58. Boadicea :
    I classify myself as a Conservative with a Social Conscience.
    Thatcherism was Conservatism with no Social Conscience – and those of us that think that she dosed the problems of the UK, which there assuredly were, with arsenic rather than an antibiotic are not mindless lefties, but simply people who do not agree with the way she dealt with those problems.
    Sure the unions were out of control, certainly the civil service needed reform, there were all sorts of things that needed doing… But, as Ferret says – she went way over the top.
    To simply close down industries wholesale without setting in place alternative employment, left thousands in dire straits – she may have been able to ‘live with a few thousand unemployed’ – but what about those individuals who were left unemployed for years?
    To sell off public utilities – those utilities essential to life – so that prices could be raised to profit private individuals. – was nothing short of criminal. Don’t anyone try to convince me that private industry is any more efficient or cost-effective than public ownership – because it isn’t.
    To sell off social housing may have been a “Good Thing’ – but to refuse to allow Councils to build more houses simply ensured that those who could afford to buy houses to rent could charge exorbitant prices – while those who could never afford to buy their own homes would never have security of tenure on their home.
    Maggie Thatcher’s hatred of Communism (and I can’t fault her on that!) led her to believe that any form of Socialism was the work of the Devil and that a Free Market was the panacea for all the ills of the UK. Well, it isn’t.
    Had Maggie studied a bit more history she would have known this – and she would have known that her Poll Tax would never work.
    Extreme Socialism doesn’t work – neither does Extreme Capitalism. And Maggie was an advocate of Extreme Capitalism.
    As to the notion that one should speak only Good of the Dead – what a load of *!*!* hypocrisy! Those who suffered from her policies have the right to express their opinions…
    However, I do think those who are using her death as an excuse to cause mayhem should be stamped on swiftly.

    Sigh !

  59. OK Jazz! You can sigh! You don’t agree with me – fine! Just which bit of my comments cause you to sigh? 🙂

  60. Don’t worry, Jazz. Although there is a sound credo for my statements I’m only going a bit over the top in order to ruffle Ferret’s fur, which is probably what he’s doing to us too. 🙂

    OZ

  61. Boadicea :
    OK Jazz! You can sigh! You don’t agree with me – fine! Just which bit of my comments cause you to sigh?

    Well Boadicea you started off badly “….I classify myself as a Conservative with a Social Conscience…..” and then it got worse.

  62. Grrrr OZ.
    Me no spoofum.
    I and an awful lot of otherwise level headed, everyday folk have a deep and utter loathing of the hag. I kid you not.
    Don’t forget that it was the hag who introduced the stealth pay rise for MPs that wss the expenses so called system.

  63. I can respect anybody who disagreed with her policies but I have utter contempt for everybody who celebrates the death of an old woman who ceased to play a significant role in politics 23 years ago. Utter, utter contempt. What truly awful people.

  64. Agreed Sipu, but I will make an absolute, unequivocal exception in the case of Ferret who has stayed at The Cave and from personal experience is is an all round gentleman (and he is a bit round, truth be told :-D) and a thoroughly decent chap.

    OZ

  65. Oz,
    As ever you are a total gent and an all round bon oeuf. Thanks but I doubt Sipu is the kind to see anyones view but his own.

    Sipu,
    If someone took your home, possessions, life savings and dignity away from you and all your neighbours. I imagine you would seek retribution. To then see that your nemesis, rather than being locked up has been awarded an honour, comfortable income for life and a 24hr armed guard, toward which you are expected to contribute, I imagine you might be a tad miffed. Then one day decades later the person responsible for your penniless trudge dies and you expect me to believe you would not take any comfort in their passing. Even if that were true. Imagine what you would feel if those around you who got a share of your stolen belongings and didn’t care where they came from demanded you pay even more to erect a statue and pay for the woman to be given a slap up send off the likes of which has never been seen. Go on try and convince me you would still turn the other cheek.

    Even if you were above all that, try this. One day some sanctimonious nerk who does not know you from Adam turns up and tells you how disgusting you are for not caring about her you selfish, ungrateful, awful little working class oik.

    Oz, after you with that Frizz Eaze chum.

  66. This surely about allowing everybody a dignfied passing. I doubt whther the oiks would like their families’ funerals disrupted by opponents?

  67. Really Janus?

    There are some families who found themselves at funerals because of this hag. Some poor wretches killed themselves because they couldn’t go on after she took away everything they had. I can’t even believe you expect respect for this dreadful woman in death when she never extended any in life.
    You are seriously trying to wind me up aintcha?

    Those ‘opponents’ of which you speak are being forced to pay for this funeral why shouldn’t they attend? If the family of the deceased wanted a private ceremony then perhaps they should have declined the offer.

  68. Furry, old chap, moi? No, in fact I’d point out that a. Maggie was leading an elected government, not a tyranny; b. if UK plc had gone broke, you would equally have been deploring their failures and the deaths of ‘victims’; c. the 150 MPs who disagreed with honouring her represent a minority. That’s democracy for you.

  69. Janus,
    The hag exceeded her authority. If any of her cabinet tried to reel her in, they were gorn. If joe public protested he was beaten up by the plod. If the Falklands hadn’t saved her she would never have made it through the second term.

  70. Incidentally. She created a country solely reliant on finance and services. It boomed at the expense of industry. When the greed bubble burst, we did go broke. We are drawing down every budget we have, more and more families are in hardship and yes it is that hags fault. Every leader since has tried to be Maggie, not least Tony Bliar because they loved the money. Now during hard times we are asked to dig deeper to honour the cause of our ruin.
    In a democracy we have the right to protest and free speech. Certainty doesn’t seem to be the case here now does it?

  71. I’ve just learned that almost twice as many pits were closed through the removal of their subsidies by Wilson than by Thatcher.

    “Based on these figures from the government about 290 mines closed under Wilson in all his time in office, and about 160 under Thatcher. Because the figures are based on year end totals of pits operating, it’s not possible to be precise, but the relative scale of those numbers is clear. So why isn’t Wilson execrated by the Left for his part in the decline of coal mining?”

  72. Sheona,

    Because Wilson did what the hag should have done. Reorganise the system to make it better. Not shut it down all together out of spite.

    Those seams are still there, but we are now at the mercy of furrinners and their cheap, inefficient, uber-poluting, seconds for which we pay a hefty premium.

    However, as I stated before this is not just about the coal mines.

  73. This is compiled from the HOC own database see how figures can be used to support any argument you like. Just choose whatever stuff you don’t like and ignore it eh?

  74. Ferret

    I think you should take an aspirin and lie down in a darkened room, you are becoming overexcited.

  75. Janus,

    Janus :

    the 150 MPs who disagreed with honouring her represent a minority. That’s democracy for you.

    I have just done some research on attendance t’other day and what they don’t tell us makes interesting ‘not reading’.

    I can find no info on how many actually attended the love in on the coalition side, all the rags seem to be fixating on the 150 ‘left wingers’ who nastily abstained.

    It does say that 100 of the 257 labour MPs were present but not the proportion of 650ish total members who were there. I am willing to bet a good number of coalition MPs were not in attendance. But that would not support the anti thatch story the rags want to run now would it?

    Bearing in mind some were there to voice their disdain at Cambuffoon calling a 7 and a half hour love in for his heroine too. I hardly think that over a quarter of the house can be simply ignored as a minority, after all we are normally governed by less than half of it.

    What was also interesting is that 2 hours in there were 20 people in the house. Hardly the grand spectacular Davey boy had in mind n’es pas?

  76. I couldn’t care less if 150 or 300 MPs refrained from honouring her, it’s a free country (just still). Had I been an MP (no laughing now !) I would have abstained because my view of anyone is not anyone else’s business.

  77. Ferret: Which of all those acts passed between 1945 – 1950 have turned out to be beneficial to the nation in the long run. Certainly none of the nationalisation ones.

    The education act was good, only to be wrecked by a later Labour government scrapping most grammar schools. One of the things that Maggie did wrong was NOT to reintroduce them. As with the miners, Labour does not want its voters to think for themselves. Sorry, but I really have to disagree with you on this, whereas I agree with you on many things.

  78. jazz606 :

    I couldn’t care less if 150 or 300 MPs refrained from honouring her, it’s a free country (just still). Had I been an MP (no laughing now !) I would have abstained because my view of anyone is not anyone else’s business.

    Sigh !

  79. From The Indy this morning

    “The latest placings released by the Official Charts Company show it [Ding dong, etc.] had sold 20,000 copies and was at number four on Wednesday night, it also reached the top of the iTunes download chart.”

    So that’s 20,000 people out of a population of sixty something million in the UK and iTunes is available globally. There are probably more than 20,000 people downloading kiddie-porn, but it hardly makes them leaders of public opinion.

    Ferrtet, you are entitled to your views, with which others beg to disagree. It’s a bit like Marmite – there are very few, if any, converts from one camp to the other. Respect her or hate her, let it be. And I would thank you to stop referring constantly to the late Baroness Thatcher as ‘the hag’. It is unworthy of an ex-serviceman and you are doing yourself no favours.

    OZ

  80. Very interesting debate here on BBC Radio Three .

    Samira Ahmed is joined by historians Dominic Sandbrook and Selina Todd, economist Mark Littlewood, writers Peter Hitchens and Will Self, Classicist Edith Hall, and politician and veteran of the Thatcher Government Edwina Currie.

  81. Sorry Oz.
    I simply cannot comply. There will always be a special place in small furry hell for the woman.

    I fail to see what my service has to do with this. We used to tosst Her Majesty but never a politician.

  82. I have struggled for 24 hours with this one. When I joined MyT I took as my motto “Qui Tacet Consentit” I cannot remain silent.

    Maggie divided the UK as deeply and emotionally as did Charles I and Cromwell. It never came to Civil War – but it does not mean that those who suffered under her policies are able to easily let go of their anger, forget their pain or forgive their sense of betrayal by their Government and by the rest of the UK who did not appreciate their suffering.

    I watched the demonstrations in Trafalgar Square and was reminded of Maggie’s first speech, based on the words of Francis of Assisi, when she was elected.

    Maggie brought no harmony, she certainly did not dispel despair with hope and she set the UK on a path where Greed was God.

    There are probably many here who despise those who demonstrated in Trafalgar Square. There are certainly those who feel that one should speak no ill of the dead…

    I disagree and concur with the opinion of an elderly gentleman in Trafalgar Square who said that he saw no reason why he should respect a dead woman when he had no respect for her when she was alive.

    I didn’t suffer under Maggie’s policies, but I didn’t like the way she changed the UK. And I respect the right of those who did suffer from her actions to express their opinions loudly and clearly – especially here.

  83. Boadicea, could I add the adverb “coherently” to your list? I’m still wondering about the statement “I did not expect much in the way of agreement hereon because most of you did very well out of her evil.” None of us here has any idea of the situation of fellow Charioteers, so such a statement is insulting and meaningless – might even be “divisive” too! What so many seem to forget is that Mrs Thatcher was the elected leader of the UK and that she was not ousted by the electorate, who had voted her into office three times.

  84. Sheona

    How very wise your words are.

    It’s funny how people don’t seem to accuse the likes of Jack Jones, Arthur Scargill, Hugh Scanlon and all the other vile Union Hitlers of the Seventies and Eighties of dividing the nation, but the one leader who took them on and sent them packing gets it in the neck for acting in the true national interest. I give up.

    I’ve said elsewhere that this wretched word “divisive” is beginning to get on my nerves.

  85. Boadicea,

    Many thanks for the kind words but from the outset I knew I would be in the minority on this topic.

    Anyone else,

    I promised Bearsy I would say no more on the matter here, I will keep my word.

  86. “I didn’t suffer under Maggie’s policies, but I didn’t like the way she changed the UK.”

    Neither did I.
    Interestingly I have spoken to quite a few friends in the UK this week as it has been raining pretty solidly. All who I would describe as conservative, small c, and well heeled. All of whom think the whole thing is being overdone, find the funeral arrangements/statues/memorial museums ridiculous, over expensive and an open invitation to further bad public behaviour. They all shared the opinion that long term MT had done no favours whatsoever to the social fabric of the UK. None of them vote conservative any longer, all are either Plaid or UKIP now.
    From my sample I must assume that there are many middle class people who are silently disagreeing with the paeans of praise and over elaborate State funeral but are doing so silently without obvious public protest.

  87. You do not have to have agreed with her policies to understand that it is entirely illogical to celebrate the death of somebody who ceased to play a serious role in politics twenty years ago. How many people celebrated the death of Rudolf Hess, Hitler’s deputy, when he died in 1987? I suspect very few. He, like Thatcher had been a spent force for decades. I can understand how some might object to the dignified funeral she is being given and the public expense being afforded, but the behaviour and comments of some of her detractors are beneath contempt. You can seen the evilness in their faces and hear it in their tones. Horrid.

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