Does anyone know what the EU can do about it if Britain defies the European Court ruling?
Fine the UK? The government refuses to pay – then what?
A period of silence on the part of the European Court would be welcome, to paraphrase Clement Atlee’s remark to Harold Laski!
Author: coldwaterjohn
CWJ travelled extensively with his family, having worked in eleven countries over thirty years. A keen photographer, holding a Private Pilot's Licence, he focuses mainly on landscape and aerial imagery. Having worked in the Middle East extensively he follows developments in that region with particular interest, and views with growing concern, the radicalisation flowing from Islamic fundamentalism, and the intolerance for opposing views, stemming from it.
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Boadicea's Chariot 
The UK was declared in breech of this in 2005 apparently and nothing much happened.
The test case was last year, and we have have a period of six months or so to rectify this.
I think the real problem is the that it opens the floodgates to every incarcerated person in the UK to then ask for monetary recompense for this breach of their “human rights”.
It could prove costly.
…and if UK courts refused to observe the European Court ruling in hearing monetary compensation claims, if that is the guidance which parliament provided by majority vote, I wonder where that would take us? Appeal to European Court, presumably…and if that judgement was ignored?
It’s time to say ‘No’ to those get themseves locked up, and to interfering busybodies in Europe!
‘who’
I really don’t know; it could be interesting though.
Since we were, I believe, one of the major signatories to the The 1948 universal declaration of human rights, and a founding member of the Council of Europe, we have theoretically agreed to be bound by this decision.
We will all have to sit on the naughty step.
Although, I’m not sure if the ECHR has come to a decision on the test case yet, but I suspect that it is more than likely to go against the UK, so I imagine that it why the Government has now gone into panic mode.
Nothing. France does it all the time.
Actually, in this respect, in France prisoners do have a right to vote, but it can be removed as part of the sentencing by the presiding judge.
‘Rude word’ the ECHR.
A word that is still in use today but only to describe Robin Hood and the lads is ‘OUTLAWS.’ If these scrotes willingly break the law then they are outside of the law, ie, OUTLAWS and as such have forfitted all and any rights.
OMG.
I couldn’t agree more!
Actually CWJ.
Having just re-read your post, the European Union can do nothing. Confusingly, as I believe I mentioned on an early post on the same subject, this comes under the jurisdiction of the ECHR which is quite different.
This of course was one of the lead items on SKY News this morning.
Mrs.S was surprised that prisoners couldn’t vote, ‘why not?’ she asked ‘they’re people.’
She sounded almost sympathetic!
‘Well then’ I said, ‘Can they got to the cinema when they want?’ I continued ‘Can they go for a walk in the park, dinner, a game of golf, a swim at the beach? Of course they can’t, when these murderers, rapists, hijackers scum of the earth go to jail they lose certain rights, this is one of them’
I also explained that this loss of franchise has been around for a long long time (anybody here know how long?)
We’re both now happy that they shouldn’t be allowed to vote.
Araminta, I wasn’t being obtuse in fact – I had muddled up EU and the ECHR without realizing it. I don’t think there is much either can do frankly if Britain says they don’t want to play any more…
I always found it totally risible, all this fuss over prisoners voting and most of us expatriates on the outside are totally disenfranchised by insufficient time to get voting papers to and fro at election time.
Of course, being WASP and tax payers no one in government or Brussels gives a flying fuck!
CO What do you consider the chances are of an Absentee Republican vote being counted in the City of New York, IF they ever send out the papers overseas in time for them to be returned?
I keep telling Right Brain she might as well flush it down the lavatory…
I wasn’t aware that Brits abroad could vote in the UK elections unless they were serving in the military. For some very odd reason I think some foreigners living in the UK are entitled to vote (Southern Irish?)Could I be right?
I didn’t think you were, CWJ, but I found the whole subject slightly confusing at one point.
I only noticed the EU bit when I re-read it.
If we are lucky they could expel us from the EU, now wouldn’t that be sad.
As for expats who live abroad permanently I do not think they have a right to vote in the UK. Voting rights should only be given to people who are UK residents and who pay tax in this country, armed forces and diplomats are included in this.
I’m with you, Rick.
Having discovered, courtesy of the Daily Mail I think, what a bunch of inexperienced amateurs most of the ECHR judges are, I think we should totally disregard this politically correct non-judiciary. There is barely one trained, experienced judge among them. We can then proceed to disregard other ECHR judgements and deport foreign criminals without more ado. France, as bravo points out, simply ignores any decisions,ECHR or EU, that don’t suit it.
rick, I do agree that paying tax should be a prerequisite for being allowed to vote in the UK, but many expats do pay income tax.
For some years now, people who have voted in the UK within the last 15 years have the right to vote in UK elections.
http://www.expatinfodesk.com/expat-guide/nationality-specific-information/british/voting-rights/
There were huge adverts in the papers here before the last UK’s election.
People from Southern Ireland have always had the right to vote.
Erm, excuse me Rick and Zen. I now live abroad permanently as you well know, but I paid eye-watering amounts of tax and National Insurance in the UK for more than thirty years. I qualify for a full state pension to be paid at some as yet undetermined point in the future (the barstewards keep raising the bar) and it goes without saying that I retain my UK passport, albeit the nasty, EU-derived dark red jobbie.
And now you want me to accept fewer rights than something that took an axe to his landlady or hopped off the Eurostar’s axles a couple of months ago? I think not! Give me my vote or give me my bloody money back!
OZ
I live abroad permanently – I still pay tax in the UK, though, and pension top-up contributions, and you’re damned right I vote!
Oh, I don’t know quite how far one should trust the Daily Wail but the President of the ECHR is French and the Vice-President is British.
Both seem to be quite highly qualified to me, although I haven’t looked at the rest of them.
Lucky you OZ!
If you decide to live in a Commonwealth Country, the UK government only pays the pension as determined at the time of retirement. The increases are only paid when one is in the UK for a holiday. We reckon the UK government is stealing £50 a week from us. Not much – but it is our £50.
Clegg promised to rectify the situation – but obviously needed the money for ‘aid’ to Africa and other places for people who never paid into the system…
I’m aware of that particular pension anomaly, Boadicea and I think it grossly unfair.
Araminta
Don’t even start me on that! Especially as the ‘Sainted’ European Court of Human Rights, who busily upholds the rights of Outlaws, Foreign Terrorists, Uncle Tom Cobbley and All, backed the British Government’s refusal to pay.
Without paying the back money, and I suspect most would be happy to relinquish that claim, it’s a fraction of the latest announced ‘aid’ programme.
Bravo – Snap 🙂
Araminta – Of course the president of the ECHR is French. That, as far as the French are concerned, is the whole point of the EU and all other cross-border bureaucracies such as the ECHR. They have a Frog at the top of the greasy pole but give Gallic shrugs when faced with any inconvenient bits of legislation that are not in the French national interest.
Jeez! I’m getting so wound up now I may have to go out and maul something.
OZ
Make sure it’s French 🙂
Boadicea #26 – I am aware of the ‘time of retirement’ anomoly and horribly unfair it is too, but at the rate things are going your pegged pension level will be worth more than the rest of us will eventually receive, should we be lucky enough to live to 65….or 67…or 69….or 72.
OZ
OZ
# 31
Not with the UK’s economic slide which has reduced what they are prepared to pay by a third!
Boadicea – That’s you and me both, then, not to mention millions of others. 😦
OZ
My sympathies OZ and Boadicea, as I have said; it’s crap.
Just one small point, I would like to make again; the issue of convicts’ voting rights has nothing to do with the the EU.
Even if we left the EU tomorrow it wouldn’t make the slightest difference to this issue.
Quite right. I’ve just checked for here – and it would seem that it’s becoming an issue here too.
Thanks, Boadicea.
I’m not an expert on this matter but I believe that I am correct.
Good news though – the politians have found a spine and voted to carry on ignoring the Council of Europe’s (a very different and bigger anminal than the EU) ruling.
A few money grabbers will not doubt try to waste tax payers money trying to sue the government for breaching their human rights.
Araminta – Whence does the ECHR derive its supposed authority over the Mother of Parliaments then? Over on the Dark Side, Amicus reckons it’s from the Council of Europe.
OZ
Hi OZ, see my comment #5 above.
How about enforcing their ‘human responsibilities’ before they’re allowed to sue for their ‘human rights’?
There are admittedly bits of legislation in between, but essentially Amicus is correct.
I haven’t looked over on the Dark Side, OZ, but the last time I did, they were guilty of writing an awful load of tosh about this issue.
Yes, a very different animal and pre-dates our entry to the EU.
I’m not sure about a few money grabbers though; it could be a significant number. The lawyers are lining them up!
Oh dear, lawyers… now that surely has to be another topic for heavy discussion! 🙂
Cuprum.
Some of my best friends are lawyers but I take your point. 🙂
I withdraw my earlier comment without prejudice 🙂
Blimey. 😉
On behalf of my extremely wealthy friends, I thank you! 😉
It’s complicated and not something that will go away, but it is necessary to distinguish between the Council for Europe, which includes Russia and Turkey (amongst others) from the EU. The issue seems to be that of of the ‘blanket ban’ imposed by the UK. However, there are 7 other European countries that do so – some of which are in the EU.
Prisoners’ right to vote: the blurred line between the European Convention on Human Rights and the European Union (pdf file)
Click to access EUECHRprisoners.pdf
Thank you Peter – an interesting paper that tries hard to clarify a very muddy picture. It takes me back to a second year module of my Human Geography degree on Political Geography of Europe – not used any of it since alas!
Give the scum the vote but restrict it to only voting on the X Factor.
http://wisdomblogs.com/2011/02/11/the-history-of-australias-convict-days-part-1/
Can’t really see what all the fuss is about. 80,000 convicts getting the vote is a drop in the ocean compared to all the millions of ignorant and intellectually challenged who should be denied the right to breed let alone the right to vote.
Yes, Sipu, but it’s something with which to prod our politicians.