It will be 55 years this December since one of my heroes, a lady, refused to give up her seat on a bus to a man. It’s 40 -odd years since the sufferers of the religion of White Guilt imported a distorted version of the Civil Rights campaign, of which she became an icon, from the United States and began the great shaming of white England as one condition of the founding of a new social equality. The other condition was, of course, the shaming of non-white England into sharing the ridiculous and totally unfounded belief that somehow the colour of their skin made them incapable of competing in society on the same level as the white majority. Frederick Douglass had it about right a century and a half ago:
“What I ask for the negro is not benevolence, not pity, not sympathy, but simply justice. The American people have always been anxious to know what they shall do with us…. I have had but one answer from the beginning. Do nothing with us! Your doing with us has already played the mischief with us. Do nothing with us! …And if the negro cannot stand on his own legs, let him fall also. All I ask is, give him a chance to stand on his own legs! Let him alone! … Your interference is doing him positive injury” (“What the Black Man Wants,” 1865).Douglass was a slave, (who freed himself through his own efforts and became, amongst other things, an advisor to President Lincoln,) and he was addressing the issue of abolition of slavery, but his words, if applied to immigrants into England, are as appropriate today as they were when written.
The serious social disruption, (as far as the issue of the assimilation of immigrants is concerned,) that we face today is the product of these two conditions plus two further factors: the importation of a large minority population of people with a cultural background entirely alien to the indigenous population, (including the backgrounds of previous significant immigrant populations,) and institutions of the race-relations industry largely composed of people in whom the White Guilt mindset assumes the status of religious commandment and which are more interested in extending their own bureaucratic reach and demonstrating to the world that they are, if you’ll excuse the impression, whiter than white as far as their anti-racist credentials are concerned than in actually contributing to the eradication of social and cultural tension. The flawed attempts at social engineering in which the proponents of White Guilt find ‘racism’ in the most unlikely and obscure corners of the white psyche and cultural identity by a tortured process of reasoning akin to mediaeval religious arguments about the influence of succubi and incubi – and with the same degree of grounding in actual fact – have produced the situation where the cultural values, opinions and the very social fabric of the indigenous population are suppressed, demeaned and derided as examples of bigotry and a lack of cultural understanding. (Never mind that the ‘culture’ they are being asked to understand is more bigotted, repressive and oppressive than, and almost entirely inimical to, their own.)
It is beyond doubt that the assimilation of this large immigrant minority is a fundamentally serious social problem. Failure to solve it may lead to even more serious social consequences than are currently apparent. The elephant in the room is islam and the failure of the adherents of that worst – most intolerant, repressive, oppressive and arrogant – example of all the systems of organised superstition to adapt to, and assimilate into, the host culture. Walled-up in self-imposed ghettos, both physical and mental, and protected from the need to assimilate by the White Guilt complex forced upon the majority population by the arrogant, ‘right-thinking,’ self-professed liberal elite who have no belief in the values they profess so loudly – trust in the innate goodness of people of all flavours and their capacity to keep buggering on without the guidance of their ‘betters’ immigrants, and especially their born-English children, and even more their born-English daughters, are denied the chance to develop and take full advantage of the opportunities offered to them by the host society.
I leave you with a quote from Shelby Steele:
“Preferential affirmative action, the classic ‘results’-oriented racial reform, tells minorities quite explicitly that they will not have to compete on the same standards as whites precisely so they can be included in American institutions without in fact achieving the same level of excellence as whites. The true concern of ‘results’ reform is the moral authority of the institution. Minority development is sacrificed to the magnanimity of the institution”
Therefore cease, o ye ‘right-thinking liberals,’ to preach to me that it is all my fault; that I am required to compromise my own values in favour of those of a minority. Cease to demand of me that I must do ever more, make ever more concessions because, somehow, you perceive that immigrants are less capable of overcoming adversity than I. Learn Bengali, or Punjabi, or Hindi, or Somali* and go preach to the incomers that the way to advancement is to learn English* and assimilate into the host community as completely as they possibly can.** In short, FIFO.
*I would love to meet the absolute idiot(s) whose bright idea it was to publish official documents in 100 -odd languages rather than insist that incomers learn English.
**Not necessarily to the undue compromise, privately, of their own history and cultural values – see examples from other immigrant populations.
Boadicea's Chariot 
G’Day Bravo,
It’s fairly straightforword in my book. You want to live here, you live by our rules. What goes on in your own lands is up to you. Seemples.
A big problem with immigration is the infrastructure to cope with the numbers. Beloved is swamped by th eneeds of those who refuse to hear the advice of women, turn up when they feel like it and demand to be seen, ignore appointments and opening hours, and frankly bring with them some real scary shit in the way of disease. Stuff we have long since eradicated within our own borders. Then there is the expense of providing interpreters for these folk and the printing of information in multiple dialects.
I see Claggy is defending the yooman rights of some towel top sympathiser with links to Alky Hider. Aparently it may be a bit tricky fro the poor blighter back in Pakistan. Boo Fucking Hoo. Kick the scumbag out now!
It is really so obvious!
Let’s see, discrimination against women is OK, it’s cultural, innit? Having different laws on CGT is OK, ditto. Bigamy, ditto. Enforced separation in public institutions, ditto. Evading the rules on covering the face in public places, ditto. Differences in the treatment of terrorist, however, suddenly is not cultural but a matter of, as you say, yooman rites.
Cheers Bravo. I was just working on a post relating to Fredrick Douglas and Toussaint L’Ouverture, two heroes of mine who rose above their given stations and achieved greatness.
Onto darker things, I find your assessment of Islam and Muslims in general to be based on your opinion and as such lacking in reality. The Islam/Muslims you describe is far removed to what I have personally experienced. Perhaps you ought to broaden your horizons and look beyond your own perceptions. Evil is a reality, it knows no limits. It crosses borders at will and encompasses all cultures, ethnicity, race, religion, politics. Only when we acknowledge this simple fact will be be a step closer to the peace we all desire.
With regards to immigrants fitting in, I could not agree more. Perhaps a time limit ought to be give … say 6 months and in that time if a person has not even grasped the basics of the language then they be left to fend for themselves …. NO BENEFITS WHATSOEVER. Perhaps we might even see Brits abroad making an effort to understand the local language and customs, generally making the effort to assimilate into the host culture. Perhaps we may even see a reduction in the imposing of our will onto other nations and vice versa.
Sadly nothing is ‘black and white’ …. perhaps we need to rethink the whole thing.
Kev,
Agreed, good to see you around.
It never ceases to amaze me when watching the relocate type progs on the telly box, the number of Brits who move to a foreign country and simply expect to be understood. It beggars belief. To move to a region without bothering to learn the basics of the lingo is just plain arrogant in my book.
Funnily enough the one group that seems to have major issues with assimilation is Pakistanis, from across the Pakistani border … Indian Muslims seem to have little or no trouble.
Ferret, been a busy period both work-wise and family-wise.
Only a fool would disagree that immigration is a problem.
Speaking generally –
Assimilation however is a two way thing, we want them to integrate but we don’t want them as our neighbours. Bit of a catch 22 situation if you ask me. Likewise we want them to adapt to our culture but would never accept them as one of our own.
I disagree Kev,
Its not the immigrants it’s their numbers, too many flooding in where the support and infrastructure does not exist. Simple stuff like refuse collection, public transport, schools and health. New arrivals are dumped into classrooms where they hardly speak english, how are they expected to learn? If a teacher must recover topics several times for their benefit is that fair on the others?
I love the asian quarter in my city, its colourful and packed with some excellent stores and places to eat. Yes they have set up businesses and contribute to the community but exponential growth in the numbers cannot be matched by the services.
Ferret, of course numbers is an important factor. We are a small island and the seer numbers have been not only overwhelming but they have put a massive strain on resources. However even if the numbers were low there would still be the issue of assimilation, its human nature to be wary of the ‘others’ because deep down inside, everyone believes there is some aspect of themself that ‘others’ won’t be able to relate to.
This is not an issue confines just to our beautiful isles, wherever you look in the world this social problem exists. The refugee/immigrant irrespective of colour, religion, ethnicity, gender, sexuality, politics is frowned on … is seen as an outsider and unable to fit in. Ask the Pakistani’s what they think of Afghan immigrants/refugees in their country … the answer will not be as polite as say ‘you or me talking’
Yes but thats just people in general Kev.
Ask a Newcastle bod what they think of someone from Sunderland, that will never change.
Bravo, I do hope it did not escape your notice that Rosa Parks died a few weeks ago?
Ferret, which kinda proves my point … assimilation is a great goal but one we will never fully achieve.
Nowt lie a good ol’ set to between Geordies and Mackhams …. still none of yer ever gonna be as good as Yorkshire …. and as for Lancastrians ……. arrrrrrgggh don’t get me started.
Christina, no, It didn’t, I mourn the passing of a brave woman and a role model of moral – and physical – courage.
Kev,
That is bloody arrogant – and a sly reference to the White Guilt that I reject in the post. You, old sparring partner, are not a typical muslim – I would wager that you don’t ask your good lady to dress in a black sack and walk three paces behind you. Forbear from preaching to me about broadening my perceptions and take my advice about learning some language in which you can encourage your closed-minded co-superstitionists to broaden theirs. Go try it in Waziristan, or with the men on the Hazaribagh omnibus. Alternatively, and just for starters, explain to me that millions of women are not repressed and oppressed by those same co-superstitionists. (And don’t tell me that that is not in the book, I’ve read it, and I know it’s not – the majority of your co-superstitionists, in the manner of the rabidly superstitious of all flavours, will argue at tortuous and impenetrable-by-reason length that it is, in fact, islam, vide the current brou-ha-ha across the channel.)
Bravo, nice to see you to. Kako si? Sta ima?
Where you see arrogance I see an alternate view. In your post you painted a very general picture without pausing to differentiate between local customs and religious customs. Of course the nastiness you describe exists within Muslim communities, however it also exists within other communities that hail from the same part of the world. The problem is when people hear what is an obviously Indo/Pak or Arab name they automatically assume Muslim, in the same manner whenever confronted by a turban wearing person a lot of people automatically assume Muslim …. poor chap is Sikh but gets ‘done over’ for being Muslim looking.
The repression you describe is not common in Turkey, Bosnia and various other places where within Europe … what I mean by this is ethnically European Muslims. As Europeans it is not part of the cultural make-up and is viewed as rather backwards. In certain parts of Asia and Africa again it is not the norm …. the Arabs however are a law unto themselves. Whilst it is very laudable to be concerned over this as part of a world wide issue we ought first to be looking closer to home. Irrespective of the freedoms we all have it remains a simple fact that for example much of the domestic violence suffered is by women and at the hands of men, regardless of whatever the law states women are still more repressed than say men are. Let’s deal with the issue at home first before we dive in head first on the international scene. Yeah I know it’s so easy to bury our heads in the sand and pretend only ‘they’ have a problem.
Whether or not any of this exists in any of the religious texts ought not be an issue, if the law dictates otherwise then this who are in contravention of said law ‘should and must be treated as a criminal. If I were personally to try this with my wife I would get kicked up the arse and told to ‘sling me hook’ …. then again it is something I have never contemplated.
p.s. the elephant in the room you refer to has been in Europe since the 8th Century and certainly an integral part of Europe for the last 1000 years. No amount wishful thinking on anyone’s part is likely to change that, so it seems we are all stuck with each other and I feel it is more productive to find some general consensus that would allow us all to live together rather than seeking what divides us and thus constantly at each others throats.
It is to be observed that those that point the accusatory finger and chant racist are generally those that live in very safe white enclaves!
The whole thing is a total abstract to engender feel good factor.
As someone who has lived in places that are majority black residents for years (Memphis 80%) and through race riots there I decided long ago that it was down to class and religion rather than race.
As such, I have never felt the need to have any such white guilt. That certainly does not preclude me from wishing to remove all muslims back to their country of origin from the UK and the USA, they mean us no good intentions, they would hardly behave the way they do had they any intentions of becoming decent contributing integrated citizens but that has nothing to do with racism, more like self preservation of our culture and total distaste for their religion and cultural values.
I am almost certain that those countries we have invaded feel the same and no doubt wish the same … and secondly … lets assume for a moment your little ‘wet dream’ comes true and all Muslims from foreign shores are removed … GOOD NEWS!!! I’LL STILL BE HERE!!! ……… and then will we go back to bashing people on the basis of colour, or will it be the Jews again ….. afterall every society needs a victim who can be targeted for abuse.
Telling me to broaden my perceptions is not stating an alternate point of view, mucker. And. on generalisations,
that won’t wash either – not all of us are knuckleheads who’ve never been any farther than the end of the number nine bus route. As for,
My post deals entirely with domestic issues.
As for this,
try looking outside of Sarajevo and Istanbul to BiH and Turkey of the villages – or the Macedonian muslim enclave, or Kosovo or Albania, let alone rural Indonesia, Pakistan…
You, and gentle ladies like Shermeen, are vastly out-numbered by the uneducated, the backward and the superstitious and it is these that the purveyors of White Guilt have thrust upon this country in their hundreds of thousands with the consequences I describe above.
Pusing the White Guilt again, bro – it ain’t gonna work here.
Bugrit! ‘pushing’
I note the apostate once more descends to filth and sexual insult.
How true to type!
Having traversed huge swathes of both BiH and Turkey I have yet to see what you describe as typical, therefore in my opinion … yours is merely opinion. Can you say for certainty that the vast majority of women are repressed or are you taking a guess based on ‘your opinion’ …. the Macedonian enclave, Kosova and Albania share many of the same traits … in that the culture is European with a slightly distinctive Islamic flavour. Culturally they share next to nothing with their Arab and Asian co-religionists.
The reason I mention places outside of the UK was in response to your comment regarding Waziristan, previous to that I mentioned these places because of your perceived generalisations of Muslims globally.
My point regarding the assumption that anyone ‘brown skinned’ is identified as Muslim and then treated on that basis by the bigots amongst us is based on fact. Yes, sadly these things happen. Yet we do remain fortunate that despite all this we remain the most tolerant and free country in the world … long may that continue.
Off out now, footy practise followed by a few swift pints. Will resume after.
Christian, don’t get your kegs in a twist … I meant it as a figure of speech, nothing more and nothing less.
should say –
My point regarding the assumption that many ‘brown skinned’ are identified as Muslim ….
Sorry, the only way I can answer that is ‘nonsense.’ The mindset in the places you mention is entirely ottoman empire – corrupt, repressive, inappropriately culturally arrogant, inward looking and suspicious of all and any ‘other.’ Can we go back to the post? (Later, mind, it’s my bedtime.)
I cannot agree with any form of discrimination.
Yet I strongly believe that any immigrant to this country must work and pay tax for a minimum of 5 years before any benefit is given, including schooling, health, housing. (Families count as one unit, not grandparents etc) Then they must learn the language as well.
I see schools in south London that have to spend money on interpreters so they cannot afford books. this is ridiculous.
I also agree with Ferret re the Brits that move abroad to Spain, France Greece or anywhere and don’t learn the lingo. Though Australian is hard to master
Me too.
I sometimes feel conspicuously white, in the children’s parks, in the shopping mall of Blackburn, because I often find myself in a minority as a white woman. The sight of silent black figures gliding through the parks and the streets is a regular occurence. I sometimes look at them and wonder why they do it; is it self imposed, or have they been pressured by their husbands/fathers/brothers? On a day like today, to not be able to lift your face and arms to the sunlight must be suffocating. And I wonder, perhaps naively, if these women would feel as naked without their veils as I do without lipstick. In which case, what is the difference, and how ‘liberated’ am I, really?
If you get close to them – close enough to see their eyes – the only bit of humanity peeping through, you can sometimes see thick layers of mascara and eyeliner; others wear niqabs with discreet sparkly bits in. Then you have the women who cover up with exquisitely beautiful veils, floral patterns and sparkly shoes. So this makes me think that people will always find a way to express their individuality and their sexuality, no matter how strict, how fundamentalist or even how self imposed, their regime.
I do like them, personally speaking. They are kind to me and my kids; they are polite, civilised and restrained. In fact, they scare me a lot less than some of the whites around here, aka the tramps, the asbos and what have you lining up outside the pub at 10am….
But here’s the thing. The very idea of living in a society where I would be in the minority as a white Western woman, and perhaps forced or pressurised into covering up – is utterly abhorrent. It has connotations of sexual oppression, and brings to me the scenario depicted in that horrible, dystopic novel, The Handmaid’s Tale, by Margaret Atwood, which describes the brutality of a futuristic Western society where a regime of oppression and sexual segregation is suddenly imposed one day without warning…
Maybe I’m being a bit hysterical and there’s no harm. Levent would no doubt put me right on a thing or two. But even though I am what some of you would consider ‘liberal’, I am still basically glad that Blackburn is an oasis, an island in 21st century England, and not the sea.
Claire, you do well to worry. Ask an Iranian woman of a certain age.
A relative of mine who I haven’t seen for donkey’s years married an Iranian. Needless to say, I saw the white wedding photos. Then, next I heard, there were the divorce postings on Facebook…
I think some cultural divides, on domestic levels at least, are too wide to bridge.
By ‘ a certain age,’ I mean my age = 60 – ish.
btw, I’m not really 60 – I’m 25 with 35 years experience.
I still think I’m 19. That’s why I like teaching secondary – I’m sometimes mentally in the same place as the kids I’m supposed to be teaching!
Claire, although that is an excellent straight line, I shall maintain a gentlemanly silence.
No quips? Dommage.
You don’t look 60 though.
I also agree 100% with RR:
Any.
Claire, I think I love you.
The word, ‘discrimination’ has been hijacked by the PC lobby. People seem to forget that it also means ‘the power to make fine distinctions.’ Be that as it may, I believe that discrimination is essential within a civilised society as well as for self-preservation. Vulnerable people such as children and elderly, benefit from discrimination. Society discriminates in favour of such groups. By definition, therefore, it must discriminate against those who do not belong to those groups. For example, children receive free education, the elderly are entitled to free bus passes, benefits that are denied to those who are neither young nor old. The ability to form judgment based on general experience is crucial to our ability to progress through life. If I visit an American bar for the first time, I may not know for certain that they will not be showing test cricket on the sports channel, but I would be unwise to bet that they were. Likewise, if I were to interview a young woman who is wearing a wedding ring, I would be foolish not to imagine that she might at sometime in the near future, be taking time off work to have a baby. Armed with that judgement, it would almost certainly be against my interests to employ her, ahead of an equally, or even slightly less, qualified male candidate. Although I am not as well travelled as some, I have been around the world a bit and it is my experience that individuals within various groups of people, whether categorised by sex, age, race, religion, nationality, ethnicity etc, tend to follow similar patterns of behaviour. While accepting that there are those who act against the norm, I am comfortable in my moral, if not legal right to discriminate accordingly.
Bravo, the mindset you refer to is common to the Balkans and is a mindset that is prevalent throughout much of Eastern Europe, so far the countries we are referring to they have very little in way of commonality with the Middle East or Asia. To simplify it to ‘old Ottoman mentality’ does not quite cut it, bear in mind Albanians under Enver Hoxha were forced into atheism … all vestiges of religion was banned. History was written, the people brainwashed into forgetting their history. Of course then we have the fact that not all are Muslims, yet their mentality, their outlook is the same as their fellow countrymen.
One thing we can and do agree is is that discrimination in whatever form is wrong, it is upto all of us to challenge discrimination and to my mind positive discrimination itself is … well for want of a better word … discriminatory … both the the recepient and to the host nation. Fredrick Douglas had it right when he stated ‘that they must learn to stand on their own two feet’ … the current situation if left unchallenged will continue to fester like an infected old wound until one day ….. BOOM!!!!!!!!!
Just got to this – an extremely interesting and courteous discussion.
Off topic, perhaps, but I think relevant. Obviously I read the quote before reading the comments:
My thoughts were that I would like to change the word ‘Negro’ for ‘women’. It has always been my contention that the ‘race- industry’. the ‘women’s-industry’ and all the other ‘fair-treatment’ industries have done more harm than good: by turning one group into a bunch of patronising b…s, creating a ‘victim’ mind-set in others and spreading a great deal of resentment all round.
As to the assimilate, integrate and participate – or go home, my views are well known. A sticker on the back of a car in Oz the other day said it all:
“If you don’t like Australia – leave.”
I had this argument in the other place over religion under Stalin. The answer is the same, in fact, the Chinese have a saying that covers the situation pretty well, ‘The Emperor’s Word is Law – as far as the palace gates.’ You say ‘all vestiges of religion were banned – and yet it persisted, innit? I was going to write more, but I feel a short blog coming on. (Later – I have to cook.)
Boa. Agree. Substitute ‘Male Guilt,’ for ‘White Guilt,’ and I would hold the same views that are expressed by most of what I have written in these two posts.