Ethnic minorities and community tensions?

Hackney Planning Watch, which opposes the Stamford Hill Neighbourhood Forum, has posted a flyer warning “Act now! Your neighbourhood is in danger!”

In a London borough there are tensions between the indigenous residents and a group whose religious and cultural values clash. The birthrate for this group is high. It is estimated the average family has eight children and these children are predominantly educated at faith schools. They need more accommodation and more schools, as the population is estimated to double over the next twenty years. The men, many are bearded, often wear very distinctive, traditional clothing and their women dress modestly and cover their hair in public.

Does this all sound familiar?

Full article is here

25 thoughts on “Ethnic minorities and community tensions?”

  1. Meanwhile the same minority group has demanded and broadly received the right to have their civil cases judged not under English common law but their own religious tradition. This minority is a minority within its own religious group and one hardly the most popular with those who choose not to live in the 17th century. This minority make great efforts to attract members of their own religious background to their way of thinking as they see more moderate, modern co-religionists as bearers of a false faith who scarcely have the right to call themselves co-religionists at all. They also do not practise proper hygiene and mostly only wash once weekly — in order to clean themselves for their holy day.

  2. I should add that this particular minority have strong tendencies to avoid contact with members of other religions and to decry any criticism of their behaviour as bigotry.

  3. The only good one is a dead one!
    Bit of a shame at my age that I shall probably miss what will become in the history books the ‘Pogrom of Hackney’!

  4. Tina.

    The irate residents of Stamford Hill seem to be more interested in preserving their Victorian houses than starting another pogrom.

    Their objections are greeted with the usual cries of antisemitism.

  5. Sipu.

    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that, but the Haredi have some extremely antiquated views on the role of women in society.

  6. Minty: so much so, in fact, that the party that finished second in the 2013 Knesset elections performed so strongly on a platform that demanded that the Haredi and other ultra-orthodox Jewish groups in Israel get off themselves and actually take an active role in Israeli life rather than simply use religion as an excuse to collect dole and have lots of children. They’re much despised by the reform Jewish majority. I could tell you a number of stories Israeli friends have told me…

  7. Thanks, Christopher.

    Yes, they certainly are not a popular group in Israel, so I’ve read. How are they regarded in the US? I understand there is a big community in New York.

  8. Interestingly Canadian radio is always carrying on about them in Israel re Chris#8, they do not contribute to society at all and the rest are getting mighty tired of it.
    Parts of Long Island might as well be in Tel Aviv! But no one else lives there so nobody cares! Literally a synagogue on every corner of intersection after intersection. Spousal unit drove me round there a couple of years ago. I reckon there are more Jews in NY than there are in Israel. It is commonplace to see them in their traditional garb in the streets.

    Re Hackney, the gentiles and the town hall really have such a simple solution. Say yes, of course you can have the area to yourselves, build what you like but you do realise that we will need to build a 60′ wall round you so that you don’t offend anyone else! (with gates!).
    Watch the instant diaspora to Tierra del Fuego! Regrettably none of them have the balls for such!

    Amazing how all these immigrant populations reach a critical mass and then want to take over and establish their own little hegemonies. They are all the same. Quite understandable that throughout history indigenous populations have had ‘clear outs’ periodically. Up till now there generally has been somewhere else to go, no longer with an overpopulated world. From now on the only way will be to exterminate them as they persist in breeding like flies. I am afraid that nothing changes at all, they are truly the architects of their own disasters and always have been in the name of religion. Interesting that they reflect the biological world, put rats in a cage, they will live in harmony whilst there is room and food, once crowding and hunger start they become aggressive and then fight and then kill each other until the population is reduced to a once more manageable level.
    I predict that we are in the ‘aggressive’ phase. I do not think that the basic nature of humanity has changed one bit over time and that people who think the world can be sorted by negotiation and collective harmony are deluding themselves to the detriment of the whole population. I’m glad I am getting old and am not going to have to be around to watch it disintegrate.

  9. Minty: one hears very little about it. I suspect that my living far from the ultra-orthodox centre of New York and my lack of desire to be anywhere near that city precludes me from having much contact with people holding opinions either way on them. In general, though, Americans don’t get bothered by such groups. They tend to segregate themselves in urban ghettoes and usually cause few problems for others. As there is a lot more space and far fewer buildings have much intrinsic historical value these problems don’t arise.
    What I do know, however, is that they play a critical role in New York politics. While a minority they tend to be affluent and vote as a bloc, hence their courting by major political factions.

  10. CO: there is nothing new about ghettoes or religious/ethnic enclaves. London has always had them. MontrĂ©al, Toronto, San Francisco, Sydney, Buenos Aires, Lisbon, Venice, Rome, etcetera have always had them. There is nothing new about occasional flare-ups of hysteria and acrimony with the concomitant ethnic cleansing. It’s the same bogging rubbish. I’ve concluded that the Chinese are quite right in their approach. So long as people don’t cause problems and can function in a Han-dominated society they believe, wear, and eat what they wish. If they do cause problems they will have the full weight of the law fall on them.

  11. Thank you, Tina and Christopher for your views.

    Yes, since we don’t live there it is not unreasonable to not have an in depth view on these communities. It is an accusation levelled at me with monotonous regularity. I live in Henley on Thames so I am cut off from the world, ignorant and unaware. Of course, I am not, but I have to admit that I am relieved that others feel that they don’t live in such places so it is not, to them, or me a major problem.

  12. COB your YET says it all.

    What next white hetro sexuals demanding a voice and demanding to live in a free country where we are all equal.?

  13. Tina.

    I think members of this particular group are easy to spot, but I’m not much distressed by the thought of an invasion of Haredi, or any other group for a few years.

  14. Ara @#9: It seems the Hasidic in Stamford Hill have caught a bad case the British disease. The NYC bunch (the largest outside Israel?) are a mainstay of the diamond industry here, they probably ARE the diamond industry these days. All the cutting, finishing and mounting is done in their area, it’s a recent phenomena (since WW2 or a little before) but they are mostly seen as an industrious and hard working group, wealthy too. I have no knowledge of their social or procreative practices.

  15. Well they aren’t far off Ara, Wycombe, Reading and Maidenhead have all gone a darker shade of brown!
    I gather from ex spousal unit that they are having problems in Wargrave now where he lives. The East Europeans arrive on awayday tickets from London, walk round the community begging and stealing anything they can get away with, been a right hoohaa about it. A lot of movers and shakers live in Wargrave and have shaken the constabulary tree good and proper!
    Admitted they aren’t Jews, just a damn sight worse.

  16. No, they are not far off, but I haven’t heard of this recent crime wave in Wargrave. We have friends who live there and we saw them on Saturday for coffee. They haven’t mentioned it all. Nothing in the Henley Standard either. I drove through Wargrave the other day, and it didn’t look any different, that is not many people around at all!

    We have one eastern European selling copies of the Big Issue outside Waitrose but she’s quite pleasant, and polite.

    Frankly, if it becomes a serious problem, we’ll just re-locate, but I shop in Reading occasionally and nothing has changed much, as far as I can see.

  17. Thanks for your comment LW.

    Yes the New York community is the largest outside Israel. Interesting that they are regarded favourably.

  18. Re Wargrave, I don’t know if it has happening currently in Wargrave, it seems to happen in spates.
    He and his current wife live right in the High Street in one of the old houses so I presume they would get more attention. I do know that they came up the road from the station, past the church and had a go at various of those expensive houses and went up and down the high street, how much further they penetrated into the higher levels of the village I do not know, probably didn’t bother, the richer pickings are mostly down towards the river. I really don’t think a lot of the stuff gets reported much anymore especially when there is an ethnic component, every one gets the heebie jeebies and shies away from it when perpetrated by immigrants.
    I gather when it is happening they put the police right at the station to watch them getting off the trains which acts as a suitable deterrent and they don’t bother, just go for a walk and get back on the next train.
    So I presume it isn’t happening at the moment.

  19. Thanks for that, Tina.

    Sounds a very sensible idea for the police to act as a deterrent at the station. It’s entirely possible that this has happened in Henley, which I would imagine might be a rather more attractive target, but as you say, I’m not sure if it would be reported. Might have a deleterious effect on the property market, which would never do!

  20. All extremists are a pain… whatever their platform – religious, political or otherwise. Society’s tolerance for their cranky ideas has gone way over the top, It is about time to tell them that they can believe what they like, but they should not expect to have any allowances, changes in law or any other ‘consideration’ for their beliefs.

    I fail to see why I am expected to show respect for a belief system which goes against everything that I believe in. As Araminta has pointed out, super-Orthodox Judaism is every bit as misogynist as hard-line Islam. Furthermore, I really resent the fact that my Government (and yours!) allows these religions to preach their views in my country where the law states very clearly that men and women have equal rights.

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