The wages of sin?

Sorry to hog the page, but some things get my goat.

Does anybody here think we or anybody else knows what really happened when Meredith Kercher died? No. Nor me. So why on earth does any civilised judicial system allow Amanda Knox to make megabucks on a ‘very thoughtful, reflective and serious book’ deal with a respectable publisher?

Some things are worth raving about.

Author: Janus

Hey! I'm back ...... and front

36 thoughts on “The wages of sin?”

  1. How completely surprising!
    Janus’ article surprises me, and Cuprum’s comment surprises me even more. I’m afraid I cannot follow the logic behind your statements, either of you.

    On what basis do you wish to suppress an individual’s account of her experiences, and why would you seek to deny her receiving remuneration for publishing it?

    I suppose that I have to explain and emphasise that I am genuinely surprised and am asking genuine straightforward questions – a search for understanding and enlightenment.

  2. I can’t understand why anyone would wish to write about such personal matters really. I certainly wouldn’t want to air my dirty washing if I were her. I would suggest money is her motivator, which again saddens me and sums up what is often the cause of such unhappiness in the world.

    Would you be so bold as to publish your experiences?

    I’d wonder who would be interested if I did mine. 😀

  3. Knox’s conviction was overturned because of doubts about the gathering of evidence. That does not mean, I think, that she was dismissed without a stain on her character. It seems wrong that any account should be published while the Italian state is preparing an appeal and the matter is still “sub judice”.

  4. Cuprum – if I could ease my poverty by publishing an account of my utterly insignificant life, I’d gladly recount it, warts and all. 😀

    Sheona – It is not sub judice, as I understand it. Her conviction was overturned and she was released from jail. What evidence do you have to substantiate your assertion about her character?

  5. Perhaps I should add that I am acutely aware (and the rest of you probably are not) that there are currently moves afoot to reopen the Lindy Chamberlain case, instigated by certain die-hard rednecks in the NT who still don’t believe in the dingo. That doesn’t make Lindy guilty, nor does it stain her character – in my opinion, of course. Comment edited as it caused offence to John Mackie – see his comment below.

    Whoops! Following some rapid research, I find I have rather mis-stated the position about the new enquiry, though I’m correct about the rednecks. I won’t bother correcting this comment because it’s only an aside – unless anyone’s interested?

  6. Bearsy, it is my understanding that overturning a conviction does not necessarily proclaim innocence. That is a fact that I was stating in general terms. Whether Knox is innocent or guilty, I have no idea. If the affair is not sub judice, then publication is OK.

  7. Does Italy have not proven, then? I wasn’t aware of that. 🙄
    Never mind, I’m getting the picture. Janus and Sheona consider Knox guilty and don’t want her to benefit from her crime. I find that rather distressing. Perhaps I’m odd. 😦

  8. Janus: I am a bit bemused by your reference to the relevant “civilised” judicial system.
    You are aware. I’m sure, that she is presently under the authority of the US judicial system.
    That hardly qualifies as “civilised”, one would think.

  9. No, I don’t think she IS guilty. I think the case stinks and she appears to have a case to answer. Christopher’s #10 reflects my scepticism.

  10. Hi Janus,

    I’m obviously having a bad day, but I don’t understand your comment #11. If you don’t think she’s guilty, what case does she have to answer?

  11. She is proven to be a liar, she asserted one guy was there who had a cast iron alibi. (She had no idea of it and thought it safe to try to drop him in it!)
    Nasty job of work. with a somewhat tarnished reputation all round. The whole family is none too pleasant from what I saw on USA TV.
    Whether she did it or not, the selling of such a dubious tale for hard cash is totally offensive. Decent people should eschew the whole thing.
    Interesting to note the Italian boyfriend’s father soon saw her off, quite rightly so!
    The whole thing is terribly sniffy, pity the Italain police did quite such a bad job, I doubt it will ever be solved but I don’t think many see her as totally absolved either.

  12. Bearsy, will you stop telling me what I think, please. I don’t know whether the girl is innocent or guilty, but there do appear to be some unanswered questions. As Christina says, it’s a pity the Italian police did not act as professionally as they might have.

  13. I am most unlikely to ever read her book, but I’m not sure that her guilt or innocence makes much difference to her right to write of her experiences.

    Her conviction was overturned. She did lie, but received a sentence of one year for this, I believe, and she served four, all told. As far as I am concerned she is now legally cleared, and I don’t really have a problem with her writing a book about her experiences. She spent four years in prison and the case against her was dismissed. The cost to her and her family emotionally and financially was enormous, so I really do not blame her for selling her story for a substantial amount of money.

  14. Sheona

    Regarding your comment #8 and Bearsy’s #9, apparently they do have a not proven verdict in Italy, according to an article I read somewhere, although I don’t think this was used in the Amanda Knox verdict.

    I can’t remember where I read about it, but I’ll let you know if I find it!

  15. How heart-warming to find that Araminta and I are, for the first time in many months, arguing from similar, if not the same, sides of the fence (in my opinion, allegedly, as far as I can deduce and infer from the comments posted so far).

    Long comment addressing Sheona’s points removed because it offended John Mackie – see his comment below.

    I do not know whether Knox is guilty or innocent of the murder of her friend. But I do know that her conviction was overturned, that she served far more time than her false accusation of another required, and that she is currently innocent in a “legal” sense. I find attempts to blacken her name and to prevent her from publishing her story as unpleasant as the campaigns against Chamberlain and Lees.

    From my readings of the “facts”, reports, musings, theories and all the other published material, I find virtually nothing to substantiate this witch-hunt.

  16. Evening Bearsy.

    Regarding your mention of “ordinary conventional speech”, it reminds me that following a conversation elsewhere, I am toying with the idea of a post on the subject of linguistic register. I’m not sure it would be of interest though.

  17. No Bearsy, you’re not getting away with that.

    “Janus and Sheona consider Knox guilty and don’t want her to benefit from her crime. I find that rather distressing. Perhaps I’m odd. :-(”

    What I said in #14 was that I have no idea whether Knox is innocent or guilty.
    In # 5 I said it seemed odd that the story should be published while an appeal was being prepared, but you assure me this does not make the matter “sub judice”. Fair enough.

    Thank you for the link, Araminta.

  18. Hi Bearsy. Your #19.

    Fair enough, but with reference to the second paragraph thereof.

    Since you appear to believe that it is fair to make reference to a private e-mail between us and to stigmatise it, as, in part, “snitchy comments or in authoritarian, ‘holier-than-thou’ e-mails”, I feel the need to make a public reply. Please feel free to publish the entire exchange between us hereon if you feel that your comment justifies said reference?

    I don’ believe that it does. I stand by everything that I wrote, apart from my inability to spell Boadicea’s name correctly. I understand what you said in reply but don’t agree that it was a fair representation of my position. I was going to respond (again privately) to try to arrive at some sort of understanding but that might be a wee bit late now.

    Please don’t bother trying to tell me that you were not referring to said private e-mail when you made what I perceive to be a personal attack on me in both said #19 and #7? I am sorry but I just can not believe that.

    I still stand by what I have said so often and what I said again in the first paragraph of said e-mail.

    ‘As always, I start by telling you how much I enjoy the ‘Boadicea’s Chariot’ site and the work that Boadicea, Soutie and yourself put in for all of us. The site is a joy because of the breadth of our experience, the facility of expression which all Charioteers seem to possess and the sheer, bloody joy of indulging in flights of fact or fancy which it affords’

    Best wishes to you, to Boadicea and to all my fellow Charioteers. Going nowhere unless you choose otherwise. but time for another rest perhaps.

  19. Sheona – what exactly is it that I am not to be allowed to get away with?

    The article linked by Araminta asserts that “Under Italian law, the prosecution as well as the defence can lodge an appeal. But it is usually on a point of law or procedure.” Insofar as I understand these things, Knox’s guilt or innocence is not what is being appealed. Her guilt or innocence is not under review or judgement by any court and is therefore not sub judice. But naturally I am open to correction by those who are more intimately knowledgeable about law in general and its application in Italy and the USA.

    Must I darkly mutter Salem or perhaps Drefuss? Or Derek Bentley?

    Comment extensively edited in order to be absolutely sure that nobody is offended.

  20. Ah, regarding the appeal process, Bearsy. I think that the Italians are appealing the result of Knox’s appeal against her original conviction. I think your quote from the Guardian article was before the results of the appeal were known, and she was released. Whatever the result, it is highly unlikely that Knox would face extradition from the US.

    I’ll report back tomorrow, when I’ve checked. It’s too late for that here.

    Night night all.

  21. Is it honestly worth all the knicker twisting here over a cheap tart?
    One thing for sure, any one with the bad taste to turn cartwheels in a police station when their flatmate has just been murdered has well earned all the public opprobium that follows.
    Not a subject worth getting too excited over surely?

  22. Comment replying to John Mackie’s #24 removed, and earlier comments edited to remove any offending material. You win, Mackie, I shall not comment again on The Chariot.

  23. Well you’re welcome to comment on my posts 😉

    I shall take it as an insult if you don’t, I know that we don’t always see eye to eye but that’s the beauty of it, as Boadicea says ‘seeing how others live’ (loosely paraphrased)

    Please don’t remove your Tom Petty post 😕

  24. Well I for one wish Amanda good luck and godspeed.

    What is the girl to do?

    She is obviously unemployable. If I remember correctly her parents went into massive debt to pay her legal costs. If after 4 years in an Italian jail she is told that she’s free to go who are we to judge?

    Janus, if the book deal peeves you I can’t wait till you hear about the movie rights 😉

    I’m reminded of the Louise Woodward debacle (where is she now?)

  25. Bearsy :

    Comment replying to John Mackie’s #24 removed, and earlier comments edited to remove any offending material. You win, Mackie, I shall not comment again on The Chariot.

    3 of your own comments edited or deleted by you within this one post. Apart from you Boadicea and Soutie, none of us is able to do that, nor, I suspect would we want to. Any person with an ounce of courage and integrity would let such comments stand for others to see and judge. Were he to subsequently regret it, he would APOLOGISE, and do so sincerely. He would not make a graceless comment intended to make out that those who were offended by its content are the guilty party. Only a coward would behave as you have done. And that, I am afraid is what you are. A coward and a hypocrite.

    How dare you take the high moral ground in deleting my posts and comments without reference to me? This is Boadicea’s blog. Just because you do not like what I have to say it does not give you the right to censor my remarks. If you were being even handed and the site had a clear censorship policy, I would understand, but you are not and the site clearly endorses free speech.I have said nothing illegal or even immoral. I have purely expressed views that I may or may not hold. The point being that I provide justification and reason for those views. Your deletion of my ‘Lottery letter to the Telegraph’ post and associated comments in which you made some vile remarks, was pathetic. Boadicea has consistently stated that she does not delete accounts, but for 2 exceptional circumstances. By your campaign to shut me out, however, you are effectively banning me from this site. If that is your intention, have the courage to do so, and publicly. Do not arbitrarily delete or delay my comments and posts.

    The whole purpose of communicating in this arena is to allow the free expression of ideas. When you first led a break away from MyT, you clearly hoped to entice bloggers who were fed up with its arbitrary censorship and technical mismanagement but otherwise enjoyed the MyT forum. Even I understand that some views and ideas should not be expressed for legal reasons, but I am not aware that I, or anybody else has written anything that breaches the rules of WordPress, or of any other jurisdiction. The only person who gets upset enough to censor this site is you. You cannot have it both ways. Either this site is open to free expression or it is not. Make up your mind, let the rest of us know and then, in your own words, STFU!

    While I fully accept that I have been rude to you at various occasions over the past, quite justifiably as far as I am concerned, lets make it quite clear that you have been equally insulting, if not worse. Amongst the standard calls of racism and and a bigotry you have all but called me a paedophile. Such comments do not bother me unless they are backed up with reasoned argument. They never are. The advantage that you have is that you can delete my comments, which you do, while I can not always delete yours and have not done so, even when I could. Again this shows your complete lack of lack of courage and moral integrity.

    It is telling that the people who have left this site, voluntarily or otherwise have all done so as a result of confronting you and your ego. If that is your intention with people like John Mackie, Araminta, Janus, me and any others who have the ‘effrontery’ to do so, then as far as I am concerned, do not hold your breath. If you want to get rid of me, you will have to delete my account. Otherwise, I will continue to post here and will continue to challenge you when I see fit.

  26. Bearsy, Backside has just whispered that there’s a spare kennel next to his in the doghouse, should you be so inclined. 😮

  27. Janus :

    Bearsy, Backside has just whispered that there’s a spare kennel next to his in the doghouse, should you be so inclined. :-o

    Thank heavens for some humour! 🙂

  28. A follow up to my comment #26.

    “The family’s legal problems are not yet over. Italian prosecutors have filed papers to overturn the ruling that freed her.
    Prosecutor Giovanni Galati said this week that he is “very convinced” that Knox and Sollecito are guilty.
    The Knox family said the prosecutor’s actions were “another example of harassment by the prosecution against Amanda and makes this terrible, painful incident continue to go on for Amanda, Raffaele and their families.”
    In addition, Amanda Knox is appealing a conviction for slandering her former boss at the time of the murder. She claims that detectives pressured her into implicating Patrick Lumumba during a marathon interrogation.”–abc-news.html

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