My post about the stealthy advance of Islam in Australia is not about “xenophobia” – or even “xemophobia” to use your spelling. Australia welcomes its immigrants, but it does not expect to give them special dispensations that the rest of the country does not receive; it expects them to integrate. I have therefore removed your comment from that post, but here it is again, and you are welcome to debate it here, if that’s your desire.
Chris and everyone, that is absolutley true – “some of the reasons why they might wish to emigrate are likely to be found in the country in which they wish to be immigrants”. Some people come here expecting the much-vaunted liberal attitudes to race and religion and are soon disillusioned. In fact Denmark, “the happiest country in the world”, suffers from as much xemophobia as the next.
Before you start, let me remind you that –
- Islam is not a race.
- The burqa is not a requirement of Islam.
Australians are neither xenophobic, nor racist. Our way of expressing ourselves may sometimes give foreigners the impression that we are, but it’s no more than a linguistic misinterpretation – by the foreigner. There you go, a special post for you to expand upon your accusation.
Boadicea's Chariot 
I agree with Bearsy, we don’t give a stuff who they are or where they’re from but they either become Australians or they’ll end up on the dole queue for the rest of their lives. We have ways of naming and shaming them that will teach them to either change or face the consequences.
Further more, we will never send them home, we are not the type to dump our problems on others just to fix our own, we’ll simply show them that there is no other way but the Aussie way.
We had the same problem with the Turks back in the 70s, they all wanted Sharia law back then, but once they understood that Australians wouldn’t hold their attitudes for too long they all became like us. They still keep their ways at home but never on the streets.
Then there is the fact that only their older generations will act differently, the kids in school have no escape from our Aussie kids, and they are terrible when they have to be. 🙂
http://www.uws.edu.au/equity_diversity/equity_and_diversity/tools_and_resources/conference_documents/the_hijab_as_social_tool
Gee thanks, Sipu, that’s just the sort of Muslim propaganda that needs exposure and condemnation. But I guess that’s the academic environment for you. 😦
‘…a flag for Islam…’ I rest my case again.
Recommend for Bearsy #3.
😆
All countries have some degree of xenophobia, including Australia and mine. Australia is a fairly homogeneous country, majority white and Christians, but do not forget the bashing of the Indian students.
Now, Muslim immigrant are another story and I explained my views on my post “Islam pfft!”.
http://haaren.wordpress.com/2011/01/10/islam-pfft/
Cheers
For anyone confused about the difference between racism, bigotry and prejudice:
http://www.mdcbowen.org/p2/rm/define/bigots.html
According to your linked article, CWJ, all white Americans are bigots, are prejudiced and are racists. Since nobody here is American … ?
If you have something to say about this post, I suggest you say it. 😀
My point Bearsy is a number of people who claim not to be racists when ranting about Islam, may well be bigots. The article’s reference to 1 in 25 Americans having been members of the KKK simply illustrates how common bigotry is/was. Claiming that one can’t be a racist in one’s criticisms of Islam, as it is a religion, not a race, does not disqualify the person from bigotry, was my point.
I recognise I am bigoted for the sake of illustration, about the Protestant Northern Irish politicians, the Paisleys, although nominally a Protestant myself. I cannot bear to listen to either father or son on any news programme. Fortunately their appearances are now extremely rare on British television, so it saves me throwing a brick through our set. Similarly if that idiot, Robert Preston appears on the screen, Right Brain, who is responsible for Remote Control operations in HQ, knows to switch to another channel, before I start ranting about his appalling speech elocution. We are probably all bigoted to some extent about something. Perhaps what I am suggesting is that we learn to recognize our own bigotries, rahter than protest we can’t be racists if we critise Islam because it is not a race… Incidentally , on the burqa, I tend to think that the Missouri State Legislature’s judgement that it’s fine to have a burqa, but you can’t have a driving licence unless you are prepared to have a clear photo ID taken, is an appropriate method of dealing with the issue, rather than the current hysteria in some other places. I have no idea how the UK deals with it. Of the Arab countries I have lived in, Oman certainly would not issue either driving licences or passports with the faces covered, but I suspect Saudi Arabia and some others might, but I don’t know. I do know that in Kuwait, we picked some of the prettiest young women in the office to put in the 1998 Annual Report, and apart from some asking their families if they minded, there wasn’t an issue (Yes, I know, Girls, I am an MCP). What I find so puzzling is that in large parts of the Middle East, where women work in office and other environments, there is no wearing of the burqa, within that environment. It seems to have been developed in the UK and other parts of Europe, as a mechanism for identifying themselves in what is to them, an alien environment, and in the process creating massive hostility within their host country. But all things must pass, and I expectthat in another twenty years or so, we may be looking back on the rumpus, and thinking, as hopefully we do now about the KKK, what was all that fear/dislike/bigotry/hatred about?
Here’s another article to cheer you up, from the Gruniad:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jul/25/david-mitchell-burqa-ban-tattoos
Thanks CWJ.
I honestly can’t understand the insistence on calling people opposed to Islam ‘racists’. It makes no sense whatsoever to me.
‘Bigot’ is a term which has, like ‘racist’, lost any real meaning (though I agree with you about Paisley and his accent – it “presses my button”, too). They both mean “someone whose ideas I disagree with, who won’t change their mind to agree with my equally strongly held views, and whom I wish to insult, yet gain the moral high ground at the same time”.
As far as I’m concerned, once I’m called a racist and a bigot, I know there’s no point in continuing a discussion, for the other person’s mind is tight shut.
Prejudice still retains meaning, but increasingly it’s in the eye of the beholder.
Thanks again for your long and interesting comment. I agree that the burqa is now a political statement, a “flag of Islam” as Sipu’s other linked article describes it.
CJW
I’m beginning not to care what epithet people throw at me – since half the time it’s only being done to make me feel ‘guilty’ and to shut me up. The more I learn about Islam and its followers the more I dislike it… and I started off being open minded and ‘tolerant’.
I thoroughly agree that the best way to deal with all the ‘problems’ that people with religious beliefs have with law / culture of the land is to say “you can’t wear a crash helmet because your religion says you have to wear a turban – tough! you can’t ride a motor bike”. “You want to wear a bin-liner – tough! you can’t drive, get on a plane or go into a bank”.
The problem is that we have dished out all these ‘rights’ and it’s very hard, if not impossible, to rescind them.
CWJ, I had not heard of Robert Preston so I used to Rod Liddell’s (Spectator columnist, for anyone who does not know) ‘Bono Test’. He has a score of 12,400 which is not bad. You are obviously not alone in having such a poor opinion of him. Rod Liddell’s, despite his contentious nature, only manages a measly 5,540. Bob Geldof’s is 298,000. But of course the king is Bono himself with a massive score 1,160,000.
You can run the test against any of the people you despise. Simply Google the person’s name, within quotes, followed by the acronym for ‘see you next Tuesday’.
Sorry, should read, “I used Rod Liddell’s ‘Bono Test’ to find out if anybody else hates him.”
Boa, I don’t believe there’s anything wrong intrinsically with disliking something, but so long as I recognize that my dislike is not necessarily rational – what has Paisley ever done to me, apart from finding his political views abhorrent, and his accent, grating?
One last thought on burqas – I am most unlikely to wear a kilt in Scotland, but perhaps would do so when abroad, as a demonstration of my Scottishness – my country of origin (if I had one which still fitted round my expanding waist). Does that make any sense? If you think of them as Islamic kilts it may help 🙂
When I see a Scotsman wearing his kilt around his head, I’ll go with your rationale, CWJ. 😆
Liddell or Liddle?
Whichever, the Bono Test doesn’t work for me, Sipu. Shame. 😦
Do you see many burqas in Brisbane, Bearsy?
I must admit that I’ve only ever seen them in London or Heathrow.
I saw one in my local suburban supermarket in Adelaide, of all places. Big Doc Marten boots, face totally covered, over 6 feet tall, pushy as hell – I’m sure it was a bloke!
I don’t go into the Brisbane CBD very often, I leave that pleasure to Boadicea, but I’ve noticed a sprinkling of black clad and hooded refugees from the 12th Century walking 3 paces behind their apologies for men – none, however, with a full face mask that I can recall. There are some very nice sari-clad Hindu (or other non-Muslim ‘Indian’) ladies to be seen, colourful and elegant; such a contrast. Locally, here in the sticks, none.
Sydney – loads of ’em, even when we lived there in the late 1990s.
Thanks, Bearsy.
I have to say, I don’t regard it as the most elegant or practical garment, but I wouldn’t support banning them.
I think it is reasonable to ask that the face covering is removed where it makes identification of the wearer impossible; banks, JP’s offices, airport security, the workplace and the like.
YOur reference to their ladies following them, reminds me of the story in Kuwait when a foreigner complimented a Kuwaiti on allowing his wives to go ahead of him, following the aftermath of the first Gulf War. – Its not enlightenment, old chap – it’s the minefields left behind…
or banning “it” even! 😦
Bearsy, I’ve just seen this. I’m not aware that I have accused you or anyone else of anything. But, as you say, fill your boots.
That was trotted out after WW2 in North Africa, when wives walked in front of the husband and the donkey.
‘As far as I’m concerned, once I’m called a racist and a bigot, I know there’s no point in continuing a discussion, for the other person’s mind is tight shut.’
Yeah, time to load for bear!
The only good one is a dead one!
I have seen a handful of Burqa-clad women in San Francisco, none in the San Joaquin valley, though there are a lot of women with hijabs there. In Germany there are Turkish women who wear stilettos, micro-skirts, tight shirts, and a hijab.
“Load for bear”
Lol. You are skating on thin ice Christina. 🙂