Anyone know her?

I cannot put my thoughts about this ‘person’ on this page so I’ll just let her actions speak for themselves. I’m not even going to label her a student or an anarchist, quite frankly I don’t give a damn what she does. But I would like someone to be able to identify her, I would like her to see this image and then sweat and shudder in fear of what retribution may fall on her pretty little head.

Someone clever may be able to enlarge her face on here, if you can, please do.

Unknown's avatar

Author: oldmovieguy

Another Boomer who wishes he had the stamina of youth to go with the cash of age. Fond of pricking the hot air balloons of pomposity and cutting little dictaors down to size.

141 thoughts on “Anyone know her?”

  2. If you click on it, it does enlarge, if I copied it I could get it larger still, but I think it’s in most of the papers already, so this female scum bag is there for all to see. She needs a bloody good whipping, and I’m free to do it.

  3. Same here Zen

    Do you know where Newcastle is Val? That’s where the end of the queue is from London to sort this ‘person’ out.

  6. So, the scum bag coward hid his identity behind a female disguise, he’s still a scum bag, and if he thinks an apology gets him off the hook, he’s sadly mistaken. He said he didn’t know it was the cenotaph, BOLLOCKS.

  7. I’m obliged for the correction Minty. If I was this mans multi millionaire Father I would get close protection organised pronto for him, there are some very nasty people indeed in our society who will be deeply offended by this mans actions and an apology will just not cut it. Trouble is, the sort of guy that does close protection work is also likely to be mortally offended by this mans actions…..tricky.

  8. By the way OMG, I don’t know Newcastle well, but I will tomorrow; I and some pals are going on a Christmas train journey to that very city.

  11. I’ve heard that Newcastle is the party capital of the country, hen and stag nights etc. Have a ball and give us a rundown when you get back.

  17. So is this scumbag a student? A student who “didn’t know it was the Cenotaph”? What sort of institution is he studying at? Close it down, whatever it is. And of course Daddy can be forced to pay his damages – a humungous sum, I hope.

  20. A significant donation to the British Legion might just save him from decapitation, but it is no certainty. Lowlife rich boy piece of shite that he is.

  21. Blimey.

    He swung on the flag at the Cenotaph; yes extremely offensive, I agree, but as far as I know he didn’t actually kill anyone!

  23. No ara, he effectively sh*t on the graves of those that did and paid the ultimate sacrifice.

    If policing in London during these marches is an issue, why not ask the army to ‘guard’ places of historical interest, I’m sure that the boys would do it for free, I know I would!

  24. Policing in certainly an issue, Soutie.

    They really don’t seem to have a clue about crowd control. This “kettling” business is ludicrous, and dangerous.

  26. Why not have him work at a hospital for wounded veterans? Why not take him through Auschwitz,
    Dachau, Buchenwald, or the DMZ to show him what that Memorial is all about? This chokes me, this angers me. I have to pay dearly to go to a state university and then I see people getting worked up about this? It is disgusting, truly disgusting. With each day I think more and more that I was born a century late.

  27. Or, if No 25 is too drastic, you could always put the Rsehole away for 10 years under the Desecration of War Memorials Act:

    1

    Interpretation

    In this Act—

    “war memorial” means any physical object created, erected or installed to

    commemorate those involved in or affected by a conflict or war,

    including civilians and animals;

    5

    “desecrates” means an act of disrespect including spitting, urination or

    defecation.

    2

    Amendments to the Criminal Damage Act 1971

    (1)

    After section 1(1) of the Criminal Damage Act 1971 there is inserted—

    “(1A)

    A person who without lawful excuse destroys, damages or desecrates

    10

    a war memorial shall be guilty of an offence.”.

    (2)

    After section 4(1) of the Criminal Damage Act 1971 there is inserted—

    “(1A)

    A person guilty of an offence under section 1(1A) is liable—

    (a)

    on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not

    exceeding six months, or to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the

    15

    standard scale, or to both,

    (b)

    on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not

    exceeding ten years, or to a fine, or to both.”.

  29. bravo22c :

    You could always read the riot Act then shoot the ones that don’t disperse.

    The 1986 Public Order Act might be more appropriate, Bravo, but just as useless. There does not seem to be such a thing as a peaceful demonstration these days; a combination of “rent a mob” and incompetent policing in my opinion.

    I’m almost inclined to say ban them totally but that is not exactly democratic is it?

  31. Quote: “5
    “desecrates” means an act of disrespect…” I don’t tend to think that a Magistrate would consider swinging on the Flag to be a respectful act, do you?

  32. Can they not all be held in the Long Water in Hyde Park?
    It read that a number of Trade Unions and other general rabble-rousers and Trotskyists were involved in this whole nonsense, so I am not convinced that it can all be laid at the door of the Student Union organizers. I think that like some teenage parties that trash the party-giver’s parents’ home, it only takes a few bad uns to start a riot which easily gets out of hand.

  33. bravo22c :

    Quote: “5
    “desecrates” means an act of disrespect…” I don’t tend to think that a Magistrate would consider swinging on the Flag to be a respectful act, do you?

    I didn’t say it was respectful, but that would as you say, be for a Magistrate to decide, if he is charged with anything that is.

  35. One more example of money not buying you class.
    Silk purses and sow’s ears come to mind.
    What do you expect from a pop musician’s stepson?

    Ditto Assange, the birth parents were improvisatory actors.

    Interesting that the Mediaeval powers that were regularly whipped such out of bounds of their towns as being equivalent to thieves and vagabonds.
    We, correction, some now, make them celebrities, suggest they knew better in the past!

  36. They may indeed have known better in the past, CO, but looking at the furore this has caused on MyT, apparently history and I quote:

    “History student indeed…another bloody useless degree….no excuse for his behaviour but at least his name is public and I hope he ends up with a criminal record. Those doing proper degrees don’t have time to demonstrate.”

    It makes one despair!

  37. At the risk of upsetting the apple cart, this episode could be the making of the boy. Agreed he has f***ed up in a right royal fashion. But his behaviour will haunt him for a very long time, as it it should. With a bit of luck he will realise that he has a responsibility to behave properly. I would put money on him eventually turning out to be OK.

  38. At the risk of helping Sipu upset the apple cart, I agree with him.

    It’s interesting to know that no one on this site has ever done anything that they later regretted…

  40. As have I, particularly in my student days. Doesn’t alter the fact, in my opinion, that they should throw whatever book they can at him for his disrespectful and disgraceful actions yesterday. Won’t happen, of course, given that he is a member of the liberal establishment and justification, weaselling and exculpation will readily be found for his actions by the chattering classes.

    The fact remains that he is a yob who would be banged up without question if he came from different roots. Throw said book at him and punish him appropriately and I will be the first to congratulate him in future years if and when he turns out to be a useful member of society. He may well be another Profumo.

  41. I wonder how the dear boy could have missed these annual gatherings?

    Perhaps he could stand at the side of the Cenotaph next year and help place the wreaths, preferably with a sign around his neck reading “I’m The little Shoit Who Swung on the Union Flag Last Year” or words to that effect. I’m sure there would be many in the marching crowds who would have a lot of sympathy for him.

  42. I don’t think anyone here has claimed to be Mr, Mrs or Miss perfect, have they? As JM points out that has the square root of, erm, sod-all to do with the present case.

  43. John Mackie :

    As have I, particularly in my student days. Doesn’t alter the fact, in my opinion, that they should throw whatever book they can at him for his disrespectful and disgraceful actions yesterday. Won’t happen, of course, given that he is a member of the liberal establishment and justification, weaselling and exculpation will readily be found for his actions by the chattering classes.

    The fact remains that he is a yob who would be banged up without question if he came from different roots. Throw said book at him and punish him appropriately and I will be the first to congratulate him in future years if and when he turns out to be a useful member of society. He may well be another Profumo.

    Ah weel, Mr Mackie and what book would you suggest be thrown at him?

    Fair enough, but would you advocate flogging, hanging or decapitation?

  44. Aye weel, indeed, Ara.

    As I think I said before, and I believe that your quote of what I said would bear me out on this, ‘whatever book they can’. Probably won’t involve ‘flogging, hanging or decapitation’under our present judicial system, so why bring those options into the discussion?

  45. John Mackie :

    Aye weel, indeed, Ara.

    As I think I said before, and I believe that your quote of what I said would bear me out on this, ‘whatever book they can’. Probably won’t involve ‘flogging, hanging or decapitation’under our present judicial system, so why bring those options into the discussion?

    Well, may I draw your attention to the comments above, John. I’m sure that they didn’t mean this or maybe they did, but I do believe that some of these options have been suggested.

  48. Och, Ara. This could all well end in tears.

    In re said comments, I have read them. No idea if they were ‘meant’ or not. Don’t care one way or the other because my libertarian spirit means that my personal grundnorm is that people should feel free to say whatever they want on any subject.

    It does, however, get right up my nose when people appear to feel that they have the right and/or duty to claim the moral high ground in any argument. I have my own opinion as to which authors seem to be claiming such high ground in this post. I could, as ever, be wrong.

  50. I don’t claim the moral high ground, simply a bit of moderation. I’ve never been on a demonstration, but I do know about mob-mentality: reason flies out the window – and, if I dare suggest, reason seems to have flown out of the window with some of the comments here. When I consider some of the offences that are committed in cold blood…

  51. Araminta :

    You are as always, Mr Mackie a joy, and you are more often than not right, but not infallible, but still a joy.

    As JW would tell you, if he was here, we don’t do infallibility up here in the frozen Presbyterian North. added to which, we are all, after everything is said and done, doomed.

    You are also always a joy, Ara.

  52. Just to clarify what I said. I can understand the anger, but there seems to be a disproportionately violent response to an action which the young man in question clearly regrets.

  53. boadicea :

    Just to clarify what I said. I can understand the anger, but there seems to be a disproportionately violent response to an action which the young man in question clearly regrets.

    Yes, I agree, Boadicea.

  54. Just for the record, I hope there is no prosecution and I hope Girton does not feel it necessary to make an example of this. If this happens then he will have to accept it.

    Yes, I can understand the anger too, but he is not a criminal in my opinion.

  56. Girton college have issued a statement saying the matter should be placed in the hands of the civil authorities.

    Looks like a gating may be on the cards.

  58. Araminta :

    Just for the record, I hope there is no prosecution and I hope Girton does not feel it necessary to make an example of this. If this happens then he will have to accept it.

    Yes, I can understand the anger too, but he is not a criminal in my opinion.

    Just for the record, Ara, clear actus reus, in my opinion, so we’re left with lack of mens rea as his main defence if he is charged with a criminal offence. And, if he is found guilty thereof, it follows ‘as the night the day’, that he will be a criminal, subject, of course, to any appeal that might be open to him.

    Just for the record as well, why do you not want him to be prosecuted? He is a well-educated and presumably rational adult who has caused offence to millions of people throughout this country. Is that not, in itself, cause enough for the issues involved to be debated in open court at the very least?

  59. Does anyone actually believe this cretin when he says he did not know it was the cenotaph? No, they don’t and no right thinking person believes this abomination’s apology is sincere either. Whichever way you look at it, he is a marked man.

  61. oldmovieguy :

    Does anyone actually believe this cretin when he says he did not know it was the cenotaph? No, they don’t and no right thinking person believes this abomination’s apology is sincere either. Whichever way you look at it, he is a marked man.

    No.

  63. Mr. Mackie, well I may have to deliberate on this, but what exactly, in your opinion, and you are the expert, is his crime?

    Is being offensive to millions of people a crime? Is there evidence that millions were offended?

  64. Araminta :

    Just for the record, I hope there is no prosecution and I hope Girton does not feel it necessary to make an example of this. If this happens then he will have to accept it.

    Yes, I can understand the anger too, but he is not a criminal in my opinion.

    Even idiots can be prosecuted. I really hope this one is prosecuted.

  65. It’s not often I get angry – but I am now.

    The guy did not bash an old lady over the head for her pension. He did not run anyone down in a stolen car. He has not done any of the things that youngsters of his age are charged with daily in the courts. Most of them get no more than a slap on the wrist and set free to continue on their merry way to commit maybe up to another 100 crimes of a similar nature.

    Yet somehow grabbing a flag at the Cenotaph is more heinous than any of the above, and you want to string him up, and chuck him out of Uni.

    For heavens sake – get a grip and a sense of proportion.

  66. Now don’t you start Tocino. There is absolutely no call for you to insult Historians or History degrees. That’s the sort of thing they do on the Dark Side, but not here, thank you.

  67. Bearsy :

    Now don’t you start Tocino. There is absolutely no call for you to insult Historians or History degrees. That’s the sort of thing they do on the Dark Side, but not here, thank you.

    Too bloody right, Bearsy!

  68. It is showing disrespect to the war dead, that’s it in simple terms. And just for the record, I don’t want him hung by the neck, his knackers will do just fine.

  69. Bearsy :

    Now don’t you start Tocino. There is absolutely no call for you to insult Historians or History degrees. That’s the sort of thing they do on the Dark Side, but not here, thank you.

    Give a break Bearsy. I know Boa has a History Degree. Don’t take everything so personal. You have done this before with a comment of mine about the Police. You know just who I was getting at. 😦

  71. Ah, so just who were you “getting at”, Tocino and why?

    To my knowledge, I’m the only other person on this site who has a history degree.

  73. Araminta :

    Mr. Mackie, well I may have to deliberate on this, but what exactly, in your opinion, and you are the expert, is his crime?

    Is being offensive to millions of people a crime? Is there evidence that millions were offended?

    Ara. Please refer to previous comments from others. If they choose to prosecute him under the criminal statutes referred to, then he will be a criminal if convicted,regardless of whether or not he is a criminal in your opinion.

    Touche on my second point and your response. Not a criminal offence in itself to have offended millions of people and I was over the top. Do you really believe, however, that millions of Britons were not offended by his actions and do you really believe that I need to offer you ‘evidence’ of that?

    Moving on, I repeat, why do you not believe that a well-educated and presumably rational adult should not be prosecuted for his actions if those actions are so reckless or potentially in breach of statutory criminal law or against public policy in their nature as to suggest that the matter should be brought to proof in the public interest?

    Isn’t this fun, by the way?

  74. So it’s fine for one of you bloody old soldiers (NONE of whom fought in WW II) to advocate the methods of a lynch mob, and for another to publish an objectionable picture of a kid urinating and to insult historians and history degrees, but I should give you a break and “not take it personally”?

    How about you give this student a break for youthful high spirits, or for being a bit of an immature twit, eh? You Billy Blowhard servicemen don’t have that excuse, so try acting like responsible adults.

  75. oldmovieguy :

    It is showing disrespect to the war dead, that’s it in simple terms. And just for the record, I don’t want him hung by the neck, his knackers will do just fine.

    Well, prosecuted at the very least.

  77. Bearsy :

    So it’s fine for one of you bloody old soldiers (NONE of whom fought in WW II) to advocate the methods of a lynch mob, and for another to publish an objectionable picture of a kid urinating and to insult historians and history degrees, but I should give you a break and “not take it personally”?

    How about you give this student a break for youthful high spirits, or for being a bit of an immature twit, eh? You Billy Blowhard servicemen don’t have that excuse, so try acting like responsible adults.

    Are you pissed Bearsy? 🙂

  80. No one gets banned for speaking their mind.

    It is my opinion that there are far too many people around who get offended far too quickly. Having learnt to live with what I consider ‘offensive’ comments, I have very little sympathy with those who want to string people up, whether by their neck or their knackers, for a one-off comment or mistake.

  82. Bearsey
    There are many dead soldiers who did not fight in WWII, is their sacrifice any the less for that?
    So as a Billy Blowhard who once wore the uniform of his country, I won’t take offence at your ignorant ramblings other than to say you have stepped over a mark and you should reflect on what you have just said.

  83. Yes, John, Council for the Defence will respond in the morning.

    Blimey, sometimes I do regret not having completed my Law degree but my heart wasn’t in it. 🙂

  84. Araminta :

    Yes, John, Council for the Defence will respond in the morning.

    Blimey, sometimes I do regret not having completed my Law degree but my heart wasn’t in it. :)

    You don’t need heart for a law degree, Ara. It’s your soul that they’re after.

  85. Bearsy :

    No mate, pissed off! :evil:

    Me too. Apologists get right up my nose. I’m not into hang them or shoot them or any other extreme punishment. At the end of the day, these people supposedly educated scrotes need to be punished and I’m all for that. There is absolutely no excuse for their behaviour whatsoever in decent society. I’m sure that the police who were brutaly assaulted would agree with me.

    P.S. You reference to WW2 was a cheap shot. Many have served and fought since then, me and others on this site as well. 🙂

  86. Tocino – I speak for Boa as well, who has left the site in disgust to do something else – if you want to offend people with history degrees, that’s fine. But you must then expect to have some of your sensibilities offended. You make cheap shots, you’ll get ’em back in spades.

    There is no excuse for ex-servicemen using their inglorious past as a reason for acting like a lynch mob or for attacking those with arts degrees, which are a darned sight more useful than an ability to kill people.

    It all depends which line you’re talking about, and there’s nothing particularly special about armed thugs.

  87. Bearsy,

    “if you want to offend people with history degrees, that’s fine.”

    I really thought that I had explained that.

    “There is no excuse for ex-servicemen using their inglorious past as a reason for acting like a lynch mob or for attacking those with arts degrees”

    I don’t understand that either!

    “It all depends which line you’re talking about, and there’s nothing particularly special about armed thugs.”

    I don’t get that either. Are you talking about the Armed Forces?

  88. Bearsy :

    Tocino – I speak for Boa as well, who has left the site in disgust to do something else – if you want to offend people with history degrees, that’s fine. But you must then expect to have some of your sensibilities offended. You make cheap shots, you’ll get ‘em back in spades.

    There is no excuse for ex-servicemen using their inglorious past as a reason for acting like a lynch mob or for attacking those with arts degrees, which are a darned sight more useful than an ability to kill people.

    It all depends which line you’re talking about, and there’s nothing particularly special about armed thugs.

    Bearsy. In many ways, I stand on your side of this particular divide. My arts degree included British Empire and American history courses and I possibly never felt more alive in all my student life than when researching the stacks of the Uni of Embra library for my next essay. I have a deep and abiding love and interest in history which I hope I never lose.

    But, ‘inglorious’ and ‘armed thugs’. Totally over the top, in my opinion. I realise that I am biased because I am an Army brat and take a pride in the service that I know that my father gave to his country. There is no way that I’m about to apologise or feel guilty about that.

    I can not quite grasp why you feel it necessary to denigrate such service. For the avoidance of doubt, Dad did serve throughout WWII but failed to manage to get killed which is a major relief to me as I was born in 1949.

  90. Two practical points.

    1. As a member of a family educated for generations at Universities and having relatives holding positions in various faculties, I would have thought the value of a History degree lies not in itself but WHERE it was obtained. It would make all the difference.

    2. Some wretched peasant girl defaced a war memorial not long ago somewhere in the UK. She was hauled before the magistrates I believe. If this is standard practice then surely this lout should be so too? I do not know the charge used, but there is one that fits the bill obviously.

  91. Hi JM – Yes, my Dad managed to avoid getting killed at Dunkirk, as I believe I’ve mentioned before. I’ve considerable respect (as I’ve also said before) for what he and his mates went through; I have no doubt your father is equally deserving of respect.

    It may well be that my comments are perceived as ‘over the top’, but consider –

    Respect for the memories of the volunteers and draftees who died in past wars is part of my upbringing and heritage. Irrespective of the moral worth of those wars, those guys fought and were killed. Sad undoubtedly; futile wars in some cases, of great benefit to personal freedom in others. I honour their memories and weep for the millions who were forced to die in the trenches of the first World War, and for the millions of civilian Jews who were exterminated in the second. I mourn those who died at Gallipoli, those who were tortured by the Japanese, those who perished in the fiasco that was Vietnam, or in the pointlessness of Korea, and those who are currently dying in the illegal American wars of occupation in Iraq and Afghanistan. And so on, and so forth. Compassion without limit, although not for the leaders that caused the wars.

    However, I find it distasteful when otherwise pleasant people use their military service and the spectre of those who died in past conflicts as an emotive bludgeon with which to shame others into accepting their occasional lack of taste and balance.

    My Dad would never behave in that way, and I feel sure your father wouldn’t.

    There is nothing glorious about war. Being a trained ‘armed thug’ can be necessary at times, and by all accounts my dad was pretty good at it, but he hasn’t lived off it for the rest of his life.

  92. Well Boa, it seems that between us we did manage to turn over the apple cart.
    Incidentally my nephew is getting married in Point Lookout pretty much as we speak. What is the weather like in Brizzie at the moment?

  93. We sure did!

    It has just poured down with rain, Sipu… and I really mean poured! At one point the back yard looked more like a lake than grass!

  95. Araminta :

    Ah, so just who were you “getting at”, Tocino and why?

    To my knowledge, I’m the only other person on this site who has a history degree.

    Naeh, mine’s Philosophy and Ancient History. I’m mortally offended too. 😦

  96. Christina, “the value of a History degree lies not in itself but WHERE it was obtained. It would make all the difference.” How exactly?

  97. Janus :

    Christina, “the value of a History degree lies not in itself but WHERE it was obtained. It would make all the difference.” How exactly?

    Not having a history degree perhaps I should not comment, but I will. I would imagine that any degree carries more weight if it was awarded by Oxbridge or the Ivy League than one awarded by one of those rebranded polytechs. I mean, why do people struggle to get into the upmarket universities if all degrees are equal? Granted, a better degree does not mean a brighter person.

  98. He should definitely face prosecution. Mob mentality? ‘Please your honour, other people were doing it too!’ is not a valid defence in my book.

    What this pillock did was no different to vandalising a grave in my opinion. The outrage I feel is not only from the initial act and those of other ‘protesters’. But the certain, sickening knowledge that thanks to the touchy feely liberal muppets, nothing will be done about this.

  99. Furry, compounded by the fact that some people have akshully heard of his parents and therefore wish to vindicate him.

  100. Sipu, “Granted, a better degree does not mean a brighter person.” You don’t believe better unis get brighter people then? How confusing. 🙂

  101. Perhaps some of those who have heard of his parents consider he should get harsher treatment than, shall we say, the yob who beats up an old lady for her pension and walks away with a slap on the wrist?

    Perhaps next time a soldier or other ‘worthy’ makes a mistake and kills an innocent by-stander, I should demand that he be prosecuted? I certainly don’t at the moment.

  102. Janus :

    Sipu, “Granted, a better degree does not mean a brighter person.” You don’t believe better unis get brighter people then? How confusing. :-)

    Janus, we all know that a blind, black lesbian who happens to be a single parent who only got two Ds at A’level has a better chance of getting in to Oxbridge than a white, catholic, male aristocrat with 4 As. 😉

  103. boadicea :

    Perhaps some of those who have heard of his parents consider he should get harsher treatment than, shall we say, the yob who beats up an old lady for her pension and walks away with a slap on the wrist?

    Perhaps next time a soldier or other ‘worthy’ makes a mistake and kills an innocent by-stander, I should demand that he be prosecuted? I certainly don’t at the moment.

    Boa,

    There would be no need to demand anything of the sort because a full inquiry would be carried out and if there were any charges to answer said ‘worthy’ would do so as a matter of routine. Cpl Clegg springs to mind for example.

    The scum who mugs the old dear should also be prosecuted. Are you suggesting this moron has done nothing wrong because there are muggers murderers and rapists in the world?

  104. Janus :

    Furry, compounded by the fact that some people have akshully heard of his parents and therefore wish to vindicate him.

    I was fully outraged by this before I knew anything of the identity of the student Hugh.

  110. 1. I am an ex-serviceman.

    2. I do not have an inglorious past.

    3. I was never a ‘thug’ in uniform – neither were most of my comrades. I would go so far as to say that the proportion of actual ‘thugs’ in any decent, professional Army is smaller than that in the equivalent civil population since soldiers are disciplined. Further, incidents of misbehaviour by soldiers have less impact on social harmony because the greater number of such incidents are confined to military ground.

    4. Though, like anybody else, there are incidents in my life where my conduct has not been pristinely impeccable, I see no reason why that disbars me from commenting on disgraceful behaviour by others. I took my lumps and moved on – it’s up to anyone else to do the same. I think I actually outlined one particular incident that left a deep and lasting impression on me – in more ways than one – in these pages.

    5. I’m quite sure I have denigrated behaviour equivalent to ‘beating up an old lady for her pension,’ in these pages and also denigrated the feeble-moralled nitwits who let people who behave in this way walk away with no more than a slap on the wrist.

    6.

    boadicea :

    Perhaps next time a soldier or other ‘worthy’ makes a mistake and kills an innocent by-stander, I should demand that he be prosecuted? I certainly don’t at the moment.

    It is the case that any questionable incidents involving soldiers – I can’t speak about other ‘worthies’ because I have no idea what is meant by that – are thoroughly investigated; more thoroughly, I would venture to suggest, than equivalent events in civvie street – and that where prosecution is warranted, it is carried out, again, I would suggest, more rigorously than in a civil court. Where such incidents are deemed to fall under civil law, they are, invariably, transferred to civil jurisdiction. (This is oft-times a relief to the soldier concerned since civil courts are generally less efficient and civil penalties less harsh than the military equivalents*.)

    7. There is a statute, quoted above, under which this idiot has, quite clearly committed an offence. That is the ‘book’ which should be thrown at the offender.

    Now, here’s a thing. I happen to hold the view that this is a bad law. Why? Because, in the first instance, there is existing law – the Criminal Damage Act and, as Araminta pointed out, the Public Order Act, both of which provide penalties for acts of vandalism and inappropriate behaviour. It is, however, the law and applies to all of us equally. Full stop.

    I appreciate that, if someone is prosecuted and if they are convicted, sentencing is a matter for the court. Since this offence was public – and it would be invidious to suggest that the offender was not aware of the media attention surrounding the events taking place when the offence occurred – and since it has, quite clearly, given offence to hundreds of thousands of people, I, personally, would not be the least bit upset if any conviction resulted in a severe penalty.

    * For those who might not be aware, many ‘minor’ offences in the Armed Forces are dealt with either semi-informally by an NCO who will assign minor administrative punishments – cook-house fatigues, manual punishments like leaning up some pile of crap or other – by a soldier’s Company, Squadron or Battery Sergeant Major – or by the Regimental Sergeant Major for Senior NCOs who has a larger selection of administrative punishments at his disposal, or by the miscreant’s Squadron Leader or Company or Battery Commander, who can order more serious punishments like stoppage of pay, (a fine,) or detention. The soldier is allowed to have representation at any of these stages, but most don’t. Before any sentence is passed, the soldier is also asked if he will accept judgement and penalty. Most do.

  111. I think one or two people here have missed my point entirely.

    The post starts with asking who this ‘person is’, when, with a little bit of research, they could have found that ‘she’ had been identified and had apologised profusely. Now whether or not anyone accepts that apology is neither here nor there. Personally I would, others here, obviously, would not. I don’t think the ‘crime’ warrants him being sent down from University.

    What angered me was the violence of the response: “a public flogging, flaying, string him up, shoot him,” with no understanding of how people behave in the heat of the moment and all tempered by an obvious hatred of students.

    I am sure that many people were offended, but offending people isn’t a hanging offence – yet. Thank heavens it isn’t, or one or two of those screaming ‘string him up’ might find themselves dangling at the end of a rope for the ‘offence’ they expect others to tolerate. Mob-mentality, whether it be due to the passion of a demonstration or the lynch-mentality displayed here are equally obnoxious to me. And while, I can understand how people react in the heat of the moment, I am not willing to remain silent and, thereby, seem to consent.

    Which brings me to my comment about ‘incidents’ in war. I do not need to be told that all such ‘incidents’ are investigated, I am well aware of that. It has always struck me as somewhat ludicrous that the State trains people to kill, sticks them in probably the most stressful situation that any human can face and then condemns them if they aren’t serenely cool calm and collected at all times. I don’t pick and choose who I defend. I would be standing right next to that soldier to plead mitigation for what he did in the heat of the moment.

  112. Boa, I’m sorry, that doesn’t help. Soldiers are trained to operate ‘in the heat of the moment’ as you say, in the most stressful of environments. (And that, primarily, is the reason for Drill.) What you say about heat of the moment is, I understand, a defence in court under certain circumstances – it is not a defence for soldiers and nor should it be.

    I truly believe you are making a little much of this – I do not see how expressing strong opinions about an objectionable act is a demonstration of lynch mentality. I do not object to demonstrations but I do object to rioting and violence. If anyone lets themselves get out of control and commits an objectionable act such as the one under discussion then they bear the consequences.

  113. Bravo.

    I think you are missing the point.

    My reaction to some of the views expressed here was probably the same as Boadicea.

    It was not so much the re-action, as the over-reaction. It was the violence of the response which I certainly thought was inappropriate, and disproportionate, in my opinion.

  114. Bravo
    I know that soldiers are trained to operate in those sort of circumstances, but allow me, as someone who hopefully will never have to face those sort of situations, to have sympathy with those who fail to maintain the standards expected of them.

    Thanks Araminta! Over-reaction and disproportionate sums it up for me.
    Some many years ago, I was at a fairly large meeting where a couple of people stirred everyone up. It’s my only personal experience of just how quickly people, who I knew were normally rational and sensible, can get caught up in all the hype and atmosphere ready to go down a a path that would only lead to trouble. Still stuns me a bit.

  115. Boadicea, your response #111 is eloquent, measured and, in my opinion, very accurate. I am surprised that so many who have, ostensibly, experienced the ‘fog of war’ appear to be so intolerant of the actions of others who have been caught up in the vortex of mass hysteria. I have seen good people do bad things. I would condemn their acts but not their characters.

  116. You committed the sin of criticising people who have spent time in the armed forces. Did you not realise that they are special and may do what they like without regard to normal people? Like Muslims, they demand respect.

  118. Thank you very much for your kind comment, Sipu.

    I would condemn their acts but not their characters.

    I agree.

  120. Bearsy :

    You committed the sin of criticising people who have spent time in the armed forces. Did you not realise that they are special and may do what they like without regard to normal people? Like Muslims, they demand respect.

    Bearsy, that is BS.

  122. Sipu :

    Ha, ha, but I was in the armed forces myself and am therefore infallible; like the Pope. ;)

    I’m just a happily retired ‘Armed Thug’ who never went to university but somehow managed to learn right from wrong.

    P.S. This brings back memories of our conversation in Camps Bay. 🙂

  123. bravo22c :

    Question. Are adults responsible for their actions, and the consequences, or not?

    Some do not see the world in stark black and white, but recognise shades of grey. Most have not been trained to keep their heads while all around chaos reigns. You, with your training, would, no doubt, be responsible at all times for your actions. I prefer to recognise the grey and err on the side of humanity, and humility, knowing full well that there are times, as Sipu says, when good men do bad things.

  124. I was going to make a sharp comment here. I typed it out, read it, then thought that I don’t actually have to do this. So I won’t 🙂

  126. No you don’t Bravo! We come from opposites sides of the spectrum on this one – and that’s probably to be expected since we have different life experiences…

    I’ll not convince you, and you’ll not convince me on this one. No doubt we will agree / disagree on other issues. But I enjoy reading different ideas – even if they get me a bit hot under the collar at times 🙂

  127. Well this thread certainly generated a bit if heat, no bad thing sometimes, it would be a boring place if we all sang from the same hymn book.

    I saw two young thugs arrested last night and asked a copper what they had done. He said one had been found drinking battery acid and the other eating a firework. One was charged and they let the other off.

    I’ll get me coat.

  131. Following the latest revelations about this fellow, I am considering withdrawing my remark #37 that this incident could be the making of him. Judging by the comments that he allegedly made on Facebook, following his ‘apology’ it would appear that he does appear to have remorse for his actions. However his attempt to shift blame and attention away from himself towards the Tabloids detracts greatly from any appearance of sincerity. Anybody who can be quite that stupid to write those comments and use that language deserves a bit of time in chookie, or preferably a month of basic training in the army. His actions on the day of the protest can be put down to ‘the heat of the moment’, but to make those remarks after the event, was calculated. There is no excuse.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8197591/Charlie-Gilmour-tried-to-light-fire-by-Supreme-Court.html

  133. Thanks for the link Sipu, you’re right, he’s an idiot.

    £9000 a term private school!

    I’m reminded of my maths teacher all those years ago when solving a lengthy equation on the blackboard and getting the wrong answer, he’d turn to us and ask ‘now, where did we go wrong?’
    😉

  134. I think I agree with you Sipu.

    I can understand people acting irresponsibly in ‘the heat of the moment’ – but not trying to ‘heat up the moment’.

  135. Well said Toc,

    It seems this yob is peddling an untruth. For someone prepared for a rumpus it seems hard to accept he was ‘caught up in the moment’ doesn’t it? Looting, attempted arson, criminal damage, theft. But its OK he has apologised.

    Boa,
    I accept my initial reaction was a tad harsh but it seems I am getting my wish. Thanks to the meeja he is being publically paraded for all to see what he has done. I still think he deserves to be charged for his part in this. Future rioters and vandals need to know that the penalties for their unacceptable behavior will be swift and firm.

  136. There seem to be a fair number of photos of this guy, with his latex gloves and half-hidden face, and attempting to start a fire. I wonder why they were not published earlier?

    As you say, Ferret, he seems to have gone well-prepared for trouble.

  137. No doubt daddy will pay for good lawyers to defend him, he’ll be unlucky if he gets more than a few hours community service.

    Still, hardly the sort of student Girton would be proud of. I wonder if they are going to do something to distance themselves from this yobbo and his premeditated acts of vandalism.

  138. He will probably be advised to have his day in court and claim his trial is biased by the reports in the meeja and therefore an unfair one. Off on a technicality.

    That is probably why the papers were slow to print the photos until they had taken counsel of their own.

  140. I’m pleased that this last photograph has provoked more discussion about this incident. I had thought of Tagging the photo as ‘Going Equipped’ but after the furore of my last totally misinterpreted attempt at tagging I thought better of it. Any how, the offence is still on the books and it could, along with many others be used in this case.

    “The offence of going equipped is committed if a person has with him/her any article for use in the course of or in connection with certain specified offences. These offences include criminal damage, burglary and theft. Activists found by police on their way to an action with boltcroppers and jemmies etc have been charged with going equipped to cause criminal damage.”

    “The offence must be tried in the Crown Court. The maximum sentence is three years imprisonment.”

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