…is incompetence. If a supposed omnipotent being cannot deliver a single, clear message to all of its creations, what does that say about omnipotence? If not omnipotent, then not a god. That makes all the mummery the same, whether a shaman rattling the bones or a priest shaking a censer while they both mutter magic spells, no difference, just superstition, that’s all.
Boadicea's Chariot 
What croc, trouble is you heathen unbelievers have never noticed that God is always around, problem here is that you don’t look, plus the fact that God “closes” the eyes of the unbelievers.
Get around that one 🙂
Be my guest, Bearsy.
IS. You haven’t told me I don’t understand religion yet. Nor addressed the little matter of incompetence.
Howzit Bravo
and the alternative is……………..?
Don’t tell me, a democratically elected bunch of governors?
So may I suggest a title for your next post?
The trouble with democratically elected bodies ….
is incompetence
Bearsy – I already proven it, you guys just don’t know how to look 🙂
Bravo22 – Well, first I’ll make my point that I can only talk about Christianity, then I’ll remind you that unless you understand the Revelation chapters…ie, chapters 12 & 13 then you have no idea what you are talking about.
As for incompetence, then again, I can only say that unless you understand the same chapters then you have no idea what you are talking about.
Actually – make that chapters 11 & 12 …. Chapter 13 is a bit much for beginners 🙂
That’s more like it. Now read the bit again about ‘a clear message,’ and ‘incompetence.’ Thank you for illustrating my point so precisely.
Wocher, Soutie, the alternative to what? No argument with your quote, btw, – might make another good blog 🙂
But I shall explain it so that you heathens may have a bit of a start 🙂
Chapter 11 gives you the name of the Angels who will do battle with Satan, it’s quite an easy chapter, it asks you to measure the House of God and its altar in order to find the number of their name, other versions asks you to measure the Temple of God and its altar but they are both the same.
Chapter 12 is an “astronomical” timetable, (not astrological) and it tells you the day of the beginning of the war in heaven. If you are really interested that date was September the 11th, 2007 (think about it) but unless you know the date for the end of the war then you can’t start counting the 1260 days in which Satan will make war against mankind.
Chapter 13 also gives us a number, 666, but I won’t give you the name or too much knowledge, just the real number.
“DCLXVI” It’s the Roman numerals as in MDCLVXVI without the “M” cause that means something else.
So you see Bravo. unless you understand how to decipher the chapters, you have no idea about Christianity 🙂
Ooop – I stuffed that up —- “MDCLXVI” without the “M” 😦
IS – “DCLXVI” is 666 and “MDCLVXVI” is 1666. I’ve read Revelation several times and it does my head in at every reading, to be honest.
I’m not iggernorent. I know the interpretation of the three sixes, and i’ve read clssical Latin and Greek literature in their original mother tongues, but pLease explain your point for me and for any other hard of understanding.
OZ
OZ – That’s why I mentioned not too include the “M”, When the Bible was originally written it was written in Greek, however a little bit of study will tell you that at the time there was no decimal system in use, especially by John the Divine, in fact the standard numeric system of the time was not Greek or Decimal, it was ROMAN.
The number should never be thought of as 666 but as “DCLXVI”, Guess God wasn’t so incompetent after all 🙂
As for Chapter 11, it’s the same, when you take a measuring reed and measure the House/Temple of God, one should use Roman numbers, not decimal. ie Measure the Earth using ROMAN numerals in order to get the number and the name of the First Angel of Fire, he who has power over the winds and the waters. Need more? just ask 🙂
Chapter 12 is different, it’s all about Virgo, pregnant with mercury, the sun and the moon in eclipse at her feet, and Draco looking at her through the Corona Borealis. That happened on September 11th, 2007.
PS – Chapter 12 can only happen once every 24,000 years so if Jesus don’t return this time we have a very long wait 😦
It’s all Horlicks but having said that, it brings comfort to many. By the same token, many are prepared to believe in any conspiracy theory doing the rounds and I guess that brings them comfort as well.
IS – My boat is still in harbour wating to be floated and the more you go into astrology, the worse it gets.
🙂
OZ
OZ – “Chapter 12 is an “astronomical” timetable, (not astrological)”, it’s just a star chart used to give us a precise time, that’s all. The Bibles clearly tells us not to dabble in Astrology, but if your boat is sinking, don’t let it worry you, water is something to stay away from for a while at least 🙂
Tocino – The destruction of the world trade centers is also in the revelation. As a matter of fact the Revelation has been running chapter by chapter ever since 😦
Hooked and landed. 🙂
Cuckoo, cuckoo.
Bravo – Is that the only “incompetent” comment you can “understand” and thus make? 🙂
They do say it takes an “intelligent man” to understand the Bible, you know, of course, the intelligent man could never be incompetent. 🙂
Blimey: a revelation, or complete insanity.
IS: what exactly is your point? Are you serious? Don’t answer that, just keep fluttering them wings. 😉
Araminta, I am being serious, all it takes is for people to pick up the Bible and read it, especially the revelation, the rest don’t really matter…..as God himself says that “HE” gave the Revelation in writing to Jesus so that he might show the rest of mankind the things that are to come 🙂
But to be even more serious, all I am doing is proving the fact that I am qualified to talk about religion because I know more about it than most people, those who speak of religion being a silly fad or something for the ignorant or the masses etc, are only really talking through their butts because they have no idea what they are saying, they are in fact “INCOMPETENT” and have no “UNDERSTANDING” of religion whatsoever 🙂
Oh, IS; my apologies then, but I don’t doubt you are qualified to talk about religion but if I pick up the Bible I simply don’t see it as you do.
I am therefore being dense, or incompetent or have no understanding?
If I were to be frank here; I simply regard you and Bravo as being at opposite ends of the spectrum and I don’t really understand either of your positions on the subject of religion.
Bearsy – As I wrote before – God “closes” the eyes and minds of those who have no wish to find him; Me, I found him a long time ago, I talk to him and he talks right back at me, matter of fact I said to him only yesterday… “Hey God, what you gonna do about Bearsy?” and he said “Bearsy is already a Saint, he’s Australian” 🙂
Bearsy, is it right or just a rumour, that IS is on a retainer from you to keep the site laughing?
🙂
I’m equally perplexed Bearsy but this the result of a pork loin steak with ginger and a salad, and a glass of something Italian and whitish.
Minty – If the Bible were any easier it would be a coloring-in book, every book in it is just a collection of stories from antiquity, it’s the church that places all sorts of mambo Jumbo to it.
Only the revelation should be read and understood because that is a message from God, not from Jesus, his apostles or the church, nor was it ever meant to be a book, only a letter.
It really is very simple. In fact it is as literal as literal can be.
PS – I hate Religion, it’s for suckers, I just know God and his final message 🙂
Tocino – HAR har har har har, hook line and sinker or what? 🙂
OK: IS; I think I’ve got it. You hate organised religion but you believe in your interpretation of the Bible; sorry Revelations, the rest of it can go hang. I would say that this is a case of cherry picking but I could be wrong.
Let’s just say I come “Pre-Paid”, now all of you! … Get down on your knees and repeat after me ….. “Oh Holy Indoles, save our souls” then go do your pennance, 50 Hail Marys and 20 Holy Bravos. 🙂
They are fine in a bottle, Bearsy, but I’m consumed with jealousy about your meal. 🙂
Minty – I am a member of the Pre-Nicaean Church, which started with the seven churches in Asia (Turkey) there was no Bible at the time and God only sent us the Revelation, nothing else, the rest means nothing to us.
I thought that you were a Christian Jew?
That will be the dayo.
Ah yes, OK I think that’s more or less what I thought, IS, but are you a militant church?
Is it your aim to unite the world behind you? Is the lion going to lie down with the lamb?
Tocino – That’s right, the first members of the seven churches were all Jews who run away after Jesus was slaughtered, and yes I am a Jew. a christian Jew, not a Torah loving, wall kissing, slash my penis Jew but rather a good little christian who still owns his foreskin. 🙂
I believe Revelations was written by early hippies high on magic mushrooms…
Your #42, Bearsy.
So, England is not all bad then?. Only joking but Indian restaurants and country pubs are quite a bonus.
Araminta – I am a soldier of God. Militant is not the word, obedient to the cause is more like it. And yes, I am all for the destruction of all governments, the fall of the economy, wars and rumors of war and the death of one third of the sea. etc
As for the lion and the lamb….They are the same, the lion of Judea is the Lamb of God 🙂
Did I commit another grammatical faux pas? I blame it on the Italians, Bearsy.
bravo22c –
“If a supposed omnipotent being cannot deliver a single, clear message to all of its creations, what does that say about omnipotence”
What it says is that the omnipotent one has allowed you free will, that’s what!
Cripes; what do you do when you are feeling mellow? It sounds a bit militant to me.
Minty – Militancy can be a fun and very fulfilling occupation. 🙂
Bravo: I think Squarepeg has a good point. What say you?
IS: I disagree, it depends which side you are on. I suppose it pays well though. 😉
Are you still taking time out to work part time with the IDF? 🙂
Only once in the 80’s Tocino, and that wasn’t the IDF, it was along side them. it was fun but I didn’t get to kill any Hezbollah or Hamas , quite a let down to be honest, all that money wasted on plane tickets, etc…wasted. 😦
Not to the point. The point is that free will, which would allow the supposed creations to believe the ‘message’ or not, is entirely irrelevant of the message is not clearly articulated, which is demonstrably the case…Catholicism, Protestantism, 7th Day adventism, Quakerism, Mormonism, IS – ism,…..Sunni Islam, Shia Islam, Ahmadi, Islam…..Gnosticism, Judaism, Mandeanism, Sabianism,…Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, Din-i-LLahi…Confucianism, Taoism, Shinto…The list goes on.
Is that confusing enough for the supposed creations, or should the gods add more? Pick one. Make sure you pick the right one, though, or it’s agony for eternity for you.
Bravo – There are only 3 major religions in the world as clearly explained by the Bible, maybe you haven’t read it properly, all the others such as Buddhism and Shinto, etc are not religions, they are a “Way of Life”. stick to things you know, mate. you don’t know religion nor do you understand it.
Cuckoo cuckoo 🙂
IS
What really annoys me about many ‘religious’ people is their smug attitude that they, and they alone, know anything about religion. It never seems to occur to them that other people may have read widely and thought seriously about the subject and come to a different conclusion.
IS, with each comment you make you illustrate my point more clearly. Keep it up.
PS, Boadicea, 🙂 But, don’t be iritated, just amused.
Boadicea – I agree with you, personally I thing the Jehovah’s witnesses are the worst, they even give themselves the right to come and bother people on Saturday and Sunday mornings when working people wish to rest, and if you so much as talk to them they give themselves the right to come back to your door step for the next 20 years if necessary.
I should know, I married one of them, then they kept telling her to leave me because I refused to convert to their way of thinking. 😦
Bravo22- But apart from writing Cuckoo, cuckoo, you have never made a point 🙂
IS. When you are in a hole, it is a good idea to stop digging.
Yeah Boadicea – Just be amused, me and Bravo have been stirring each other with this one for more than year now, the guy never learns. 🙂
IS, you (like so many of your fellow dupes) abuse words in common usage by attributing to them special meanings to assist your defenceless arguments. It pointless therefore to argue with you.
Janus – I blame the lot on my ESL, it’s very hard trying to explain, truth, veracity and unquestionable facts to the likes of Bravo 😦
IS, I don’t mind which language you use, the answers the same! Try it out with the ‘Lord’s Prayer’. Word by word. if you can find any ‘normal’ meaning at all, I’ll be flabbergasted, nay converted. 🙂
Janus – Trouble is you are reciting the ancient Lord’s prayer, here’s the latest version of it with the original next to it for comparison 🙂
Big Daddy’s Rap The Lord’s Prayer
Yo, Bid Daddy upstairs, Our Father, who art in heaven
You be chillin Hallowed be thy name
So be yo hood Thy Kingdom come
You be sayin’ it, I be doin’ it Thy will be done
In this here hood and yo’s On earth as it is in heaven
Gimme some eats Give us this day our daily bread
And cut me some slack, And forgive us our trespasses
Sos I be doin’ it to dem dat diss me As we forgive those who
trespass against us
don’t be pushing me into no jive And lead us not into temptation
and keep dem Crips away But deliver us from evil
‘Cause you always be da Man For thine is the Kingdom,
the power and the
glory, forever and ever.
Aaa-men Amen
Get with the times, man 🙂
IS, I note that you prefer to joke rather tha accept my challenge! let’s use the original Greek. No need then for arguments over language or culture. The usual cop out refers to ‘symbolism’ but that’s a patronising way of saying ‘You poor mortals can’t understand the truth so here’s a bedtime story.’
I know, let’s take your own words: “God is always around, problem here is that you don’t look, plus the fact that God “closes” the eyes of the unbelievers.”
Please explain the first four words.
Sorry Janus – I thought you were joking. 🙂
God is always around —- Since the beginning his “spirit” has flowed over the waters and therefore all around us
Problem here is that you don’t look —- I look and I see him, not because I believe or have faith but because I know he is there, therefore I see him plain as I would see anybody else.
God closes the eyes of the unbelievers — If you don’t want him, he don’t want you, you have to attempt to find him in a serious manner before he will let you see him.
Ok, give us one unquestionable fact about religion.
Hint.
This is not an unquestionable fact. Neither is:
It’s just doggerel.
Bravo22 – If there were a club house for those willing to discuss, debate and opinionate on God with an open mind ….. You wouldn’t be in it, have you not noticed that you never put forward any kind of argument worth more than two words? 🙂
Is, “God is always around —- Since the beginning his “spirit” has flowed over the waters and therefore all around us.” I asked for an explanation. you have not explained ‘God’, ‘spirit’ or ‘all around’. Not sure what the waters have to do with it – wherever they are.
Bravo – I noticed you never questioned this fact …
“God is always around —- Since the beginning his “spirit” has flowed over the waters and therefore all around us”
why not?
IS, Bravo didn’t but I did. Pls answer.
Janus – Good on yah, good to know you can come up with questions instead of Cuckoo clocks.
According to the Bible, God is that spirit that has since creation, “flowed”. It is from this word “Flow” that we get the phrase “Spirit”. God is not Physical, we are built in his “image”, not his true self. So when you look for God, don’t look for a person or an object, look for his spirit and you will see him.
As for water, that’s what the Bible is all about mate,
God flows over water, he floods bad mankind, his angels control the waters, Satan arrives and attacks by “Flood”, one third of the “sea” dies. on and on and on.
In fact the entire story is written around “Water”
A bit more ….
Jesus is a Fisherman, his symbol is a fish, the church uses a shell as its symbol, Jesus walks on water, holy water. the rainbow God talks about comes from water. The beast comes out of the water. Jesus puts one foot on land and the other on …. water.
Water, water, water.
Some more?
Moses parted the .. sea. The Egyptians were killed by it. The Pope wears a ..Fisherman’s ring, Jesus once gave a dying man … water, the same man, gave it back during the Crucifixion, the Jews worked with mud (water?) to make bricks, Christians are all Baptized with …water.
So who is God and where can you find him? Wherever there is water, there you shall find God flowing over it …. water “Flows” 🙂
IS #81,82 and 83. None of those are unquestionable facts. You don’t beleive them yourself, according to you, because you only believe in the first and last books in the bible…
Stop digging.
The message is quite clear enough, so ‘omnipotence’ is OK.
What is interesting is the assortment of excuses, evasions, rationalisations, programs, posturings, lies and crimes that people use to avoid the message. It is these wonderful attributes of the ‘human spirit’ that are responsible for the various religions and all the evil in the world.
Bravo – Er… have you read the Revelation? 😦 It’s all in there.
As for unquestionable, which of the facts I stated in 81, 82 and 83 do you find questionable?
HMB – As you usual, you take a few words to say what I would normally spend pages on ..
“What is interesting is the assortment of excuses, evasions, rationalizations, programs, posturings, lies and crimes that people use to avoid the message.”
What message? You don’t agree with IS. Neither of you agree with Fr. James. None of the three of you agree with Levent… and so on and so, wearyingly forth. Incompetence is not dismissed and omnipotence is still very much in question.
IS. All of them. ‘It’s in the bible.’ is not enough to remove the questions. See my answer to hmb.
PS. IS, what you say is in the book of revelations is not what others say. Hence, ‘all of them.’
Bravo – my 81 is in the first chapter of the Bible, most all other stuff is in Revelation plus a few bits I added to answer Janus question about “water”
Stick with the program, mate 🙂
As for where HMB, Levent and myself agree or not, that don’t matter, what does matter is that we all agree on the “meaning” of the message …. God exists, no doubt about it.
IS, your #81. QED.
Btw, IS. ‘Spirit’ is the latin for breath, a translation of ‘pneuma’ in Greek. Nowt to do wi’ flowing, I fear.
QED again.
Nothing to see here, folks, keep moving along.
IS
Quoting the Bible is not sufficient evidence for proving anything. The Bible is no more than a collection of myths and legends of a group of people, now called Jews. The stories were collected by men, written by men, and interpreted by men. The Bible has no more validity as evidence of the existence of the God Yahweh than the tales of Homer prove the existence of Zeus, and all the other Greek Gods.
You will have to come up with something better than continual quoting of a book of dubious origin.
Janus – The final clincher … “God comes with clouds” …. what are clouds made out of? 🙂
JEHOVAH – JE H2O VAH “with water I go” (I made that up) 🙂
IS, if you think that’s final…….. Do clouds flow then too? I think you have proved that your knowledge is shallow and your beliefs ill-considered. Sorry.
Boadicea – When we are thousands of miles away from each other, what else can we do but quote books? BUt yeah, I agree, the Bible is nothing more than a collection of stories from antiquity, good stories but nevertheless, just stories.
The Revelation however is not meant to be a book, it is a letter sent by God to mankind so that we would know the things that will happen.
IF you were to research chapter 12 only, you would realize the incredible amount of knowledge and intelligence that it would have taken whoever wrote it to put it into such context so that its message would remain unchanged throughout 2000 years.
I see a Virgin in the sky – The constellation of Virgo
Pregnant with child – Mercury sits next to her
Travailing in Pain – It took an entire week for Mercury to move out of its phase
A Crown of Twelve stars – The Super-Constellation of “Corona Borealis” which holds within it 12 other constellations
The dragon looking on – The constallation of Draco appears to be looking at Virgo
Its tail DID point to the earth – Draco is the only constellation whose “tail” turns towards earth or away from it depending on the seasons, in this case , “It DID” point but now points away.
Sweeping one third of the sky – Draco’s tail does sweep one third of the sky
and the child is take to safety – THe event occurs only once every 24,000 years.
Now, you tell me, who on Earth, could not only predict but describe this event with such accuracy 2000 years ago? Nobody. only someone very advanced, someone very intelligent with lots of knowledge could know this.
PROOF!
7 heads and 10 horns
10 horns into 7 heads? That’s equal to ….1.428571428571428571…..infinitum
This is known as “the” cyclical number (research it) and it is a very important number in mathematics, the rest is astronomy.
A quick look at any sky chart with the coordinates for PATMOS, the island where the vision took place, will show anybody that this event did indeed happen in September the 11th, 2007. It did not happen 2000 years ago so there is no way St. John the Divine would have seen it then 🙂
Janus – How can it be shallow, you asked about “water” and I showed you countless examples of it in the Bible.
Janus – “Do clouds flow then too?” yes, they flow with the wind. Wind and Water, once again 🙂
IS, pls read my # 92. You’ve got your breaths and flows mixed up.
Janus – Sorry mate, but in Latin, and in English, when one gives out the last “breath” one gives up the spirit as it flows out of the body. and since a spirit cannot move because it is not physical, then it can only “flow”
As for the translation of Spirit, it is Espiritu or Espirito, it has nothing to do with Pneumatics, or lungs or whatever. 🙂
IS, you’re an incurable fantasist. The word spirit in the Bible is a from a Latin word ‘spiritus’ which is a translation of ‘PNEUMA, the Greek for ‘breath’. Nothing to do with flowing. If that’s too hard, I give up. 😦
#97. You should get together with good old veteran 09. You two would have a lot to talk about.
Janus – I give up too, I think you guys are all far too argumentative when confronted with a vast source of knowledge and intelligence such as my own, what else can I do but leave you heathens to the mercy of Satan?
BEGONE I SAY TO THEE !!! 🙂
Bravo22 – Actually I always enjoyed Veteran09, we had plenty of discussions and the old bugger beat me at every turn, he can turn a story better than a pipe bender, according to him Jesus is a woman, lives like a Queen and resides in Britain. How am I supposed to beat that? 😦
Zen, that’s a great track and a great Sunday afternoon laught. BC is one of my favourites.