There is a little almanac in its 82nd year of publication in Portugal called the “Borda D’Agua”. It contains all sorts of useful information such as Saints’ Days, full moons and what to plant in any particular month. It also includes the tmes of the rising and the setting of the sun.
My question is this: On 1st June, the sun rose at 05:14 hrs and set at 19:55hrs. On 30th June the sun will rise at 05:15 hrs, but will set later at 20:06hrs.
If the days are supposed to be shortening after the summer solstice, can any erudite or highbrow Charioteer explain this apparent anomoly to a thick wolf?
OZ
Boadicea's Chariot 
Erm, nope?
Cheers, Bravo, very bloody useful! 😀 A friend who asked this question is expecting a reply and I can’t explain the ten minute difference nor find anything relevant on t’Interweb.
OZ
Well akshully dear Lupus Confusius I can.
1st of June – Rise 5:14, Set 19:55. Total length of day 14 hrs 41 mins.
30th June – Rise 05:15, Set 20.06. Total length of day 14 hrs 51 mins
End of June longer, no makey no sense nes pas?
But…..
The longest day or summer solstice comes towards the end of June 21st to be precise. By the time we get to the 30th, the nights are drawing in. Add on another 12 days ie 12 July and the daylight hours will be the same as the 1st June. Seemples.
Also, you almaniac appears to be diddling you out of 2 hrs of sun every day. See below for the UK sunrise/set table by day.
http://uk.weather.com/climate/sunRiseSunSet-London-UKXX0085
Ferret – Wot?? The Borda d’Agua gives sunrise and sunset times in Lisbon and Porto rather than London, for some strange reason. It does record that the Solstice was on 21st June and there were even reports of the Stonehenge hippifest in the Portuguese press, but it still doesn’t answer the question.
Your part of the world is some 1,200 miles north of The Cave, which might make a difference.
OZ
Oops my mistook chum forgot to carry the left middle toe when summing up.
1st June was 15hrs 41 min of daylight.
21st June was 16 hrs 01 min
30th June 15 hrs 51 min
12 July = 1st June at 15 hrs 41 min.
I assume your days are shorter than ours in the UK because we pay more taxes. 🙂
OZ,
It doesn’t matter my second comment uses the times from your almaniac.
Basically 21st is the longest day.
But you are comparing the length 21 days before the solstice with one which is only 9 after it.
Think Druid not Gregorian you daft furball.
To put it another way,
The days were getting longer running up to the 21st, then they started getting shorter. By th eend of the month they won’t have shortened enough to match the start. That will happen on the 12th July.
“Now write it out 5000 times before breakfast or I’ll cut yer tail orf.” 🙂
Ferret: Portugal is nearer the Equator than the UK, hence the earlier sunsets.
OZ: I think that sunsets after the Summer Solstice still get later for about a week, depending on latitude, because the Earth’s orbit is not circular and hence the orbital speed is slower near the aphelion (nearest approach to the Sun), which is somewhen in July. The Opposite is true in December, when the earliest sunset is normally about the 15th.
I do like your “almamiac” and am going to leave it, but it’s just not. Even using my timings between 1st and 31st June, there is a one minute shortage at dawn compared with an eleven minute elongation at dusk after the Solxtice when days are supposed to drawing in. This makes the day longer in my eyes and is exactly what the discussion in the bar was all about, but there again I am only a daft furball. 😀
By the way, do you know if an eclipse of the moon loses its left-hand convex shadow as the eclipse passes through the diameter of the moon? I didn’t know either, but I watched it and I know now,
OZ
In relation, the longest day is the same regardless, here are the Lisbon figures from the same source as my UK ones.
http://uk.weather.com/climate/sunRiseSunSet-Lisbon-POXX0016
OZ, like FEEG so expertly puts it, we ain’t spinning straight up so the actual times of dawn/dusk don’t follow da roolz.
But… the length of the day expands up to the 21st then contracts after it, of course the whole thing does one humungous yewey on Dec 21st and we all start eating, drinking unt making of the merry because we all survived another one.
OK. smarty-ass pink furry-eared one, so why is 30th June apparently ten minutes longer than at the solstice ten days prior? I will accept surviviing another one.
OZ
No it ain’t ya muppet.
21st in Lisbon was 14hr53m and some seconds
30th in Lisbon was 14hr 50m and some seconds
Even without taking my socks off I can tell that is 3 minutes less with the Piz Buin buddy. 🙂
Aaaah, so you’re saying that 30th June is shorter than 21st, but longer than the 1st’? That would explain it.
Daft furball 😦
By jove, I think he’s got it!!!!!! 😉
An’ de wa’er in Majoorka don’t taste like wat it ough’a. (Cockney accent needed) Wasser name? Long dark hair. Did an advert back in the day. Stephanie something?
OZ
MMMM, no comment.
How about the simple word “misprint” as an explanation? Now settle down and brush your coats, OZ and Ferret.
Yes, Sheona, Ma’am. (I still think he’s wrong, though 🙂 )
OZ
Lorraine Chase
This poor Aussie Bear cannot believe that my lupine friend cannot understand my mustelid friend’s explanation, which is as clear as crystal to me.
When you get to the cave, Ferret, draw OZ a graph so that he may understand. 😀
Bearsy, my dear chap. That’s the fella!!! Told you the name was Stephanie something or other 😀
I fully expect to discuss solstices at length with the Mustelid in due course.
OZ
Sheona,
This is science at its very core.
It’s not a misprint. The timings are spot on. My learned lupine friend is merely confused at the timings. Inevitable when you lay the gregorian system over the pagan one.
Of Course Bearsy,
A graph! Why didn’t I think of that?
OK OZ,
I drew this roughly based on Faro.
The top line represents the time that the sun sets, the bottom when it rises. Please note from the dotted lines the general position of the summer and winter solstices.
Heres the tricky bit and it doesn’t really show on the graph, but when the yellow line is at its maximum time (latest), the blue is still decreasing. Similarly when the yellow is at min (earliest) the blue is still increasing. This overlap is about 4-5 days. But the greatest/least distance between the lines is at the dotted lines.
Now heres the real swizzler so “Doooo pay attention Bond!”
Because the variance (difference between max and min) between the yellow sunset values is much greater than the variance on the blue sunrise, The longest amount of daytime occurs while dawn is still getting earlier and the shortest day while dawn is still getting later. How d’ya like dem apples?
I have ignored daylight savings time for simplicity. 🙂
QED. 😀
Ergo sum
Sob! 😀
OZ