Home > General > Rod Liddle on Putin

Rod Liddle on Putin

Good piece in the Spectator.

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Categories: General
  1. October 23, 2016 at 10:52 am

    By ‘good’ you mean you agree with this clever Dick hack? As if he understands the political stan-off better than the assembled brains of the West? As if the West should ignore his annexation of the Crimea? The terrorisation of Ukraine? The constant threats against the Baltic states? But as usual he and his ilk have no solutions, just carping opinions about elected governments – which do not include Russia’s. Or do you believe Putin’s propaganda about ‘free’ elections there too?

  2. October 23, 2016 at 12:06 pm

    We don’t have political brains in the West, Janus. We have a coterie of mediocrities. The annexation of Crimea? Messy, but less problematic than the US annexation of Hawai’i or the dislocation of residents in the British Indian Ocean Territory. The terrorisation of Ukraine? If Russia fomented an uprising in Spain and intervened to support the ouster of a legitimate government, however useless, I’m hard-pressed to believe that France would just grin and bear it. For that matter, anyone in the West simply accepting it would be out of the question. Yet, that’s what the EU and US did in Ukraine. Was Russia pure in its intentions? Absolutely not, but it wasn’t the one that instigated the conflict. Threatening the Baltic States? The US and NATO spent years talking about placing needless military instillations near Russia’s border.

  3. October 23, 2016 at 1:52 pm

    janus “………….the assembled brains of the West?………….”

    You mean that bunch of numpties who keep screwing things up reinforcing their mistakes.

  4. October 23, 2016 at 3:17 pm

    Putin has certainly pushed the right buttons for you guys! Is that your solution? To follow his lead?

  5. October 23, 2016 at 3:30 pm

    PS since you posted the article, Jazz, why not answer my questions?

  6. October 23, 2016 at 4:35 pm

    Janus: It’s not a matter of following Putin’s lead. Liddle described the current situation perfectly. Putin isn’t a nice man and he isn’t a good man, either. He’s not an honest leader. Russia has pursued its goals ruthlessly under Putin and he’s run the country with a very firm grip. But what have we been doing in the West, Janus? Does exploiting Ukraine’s cultural and historic fault-lines with no regard to potential consequences make our “leaders” somehow more enlightened? Does refusing to acknowledge that Russia has real and valid concerns make us more intellectually “pure”? Had our blessed “leaders” and “great minds” spent half an hour studying an outline of Russian history and geopolitical concerns the battles in Ukraine and the tensions in the Baltic would have never happened. Alas and alack, they haven’t. I’m not at all arguing that Russia is a victim. Rather, that both sides are dancing a nasty, dirty dance and we’re the ones making the biggest mess.Unless, of course, you consider Syria and Libya to be glorious successes.

  7. October 23, 2016 at 5:47 pm

    Hi Christopher.

    Yes but? What possible justification can Putin have for ‘exploiting Ukraine’s cultural and historic fault-lines’ when his country signed the Memorandum of Budapest? Particularly with reference to the first confirmation?

    ‘1. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.’

    My problem with Putin is that I can not support anybody who hates my country. Alex Salmond and Corbyn are,of course, the prime examples but Putin is right up there with them, in my opinion.

    I do not consider either Syria or Iraq to be glorious successes but I do believe that Putin’s bombing of Aleppo is a war crime.

    Moving on, Rod Liddle is a sad tosser who is vanishing up his own fundament in an attempt to stay sparky and controversial. Again my opinion. I also believe that he is the weakest link at ‘The Spectator’. I will not cancel my subscription but I will,skim his drivel from now on.

    Moving on again, Mrs M. and I say ‘Māuruuru’ for your gift which arrived while we were on holiday in Vienna.

    I presume that it’s white rum that we use?

  8. christinaosborne
    October 23, 2016 at 6:47 pm

    I agree with Christopher. The EU caused the Ukraine and then ran whimpering back to Brussels when their empire building went awry in the Kremlin leaving others to live with/and or/clean up their mess.

    Geography came well before history. The Dnieper was a natural boundary that was ignored by arrogant stupid western politicians. To the right/East of the river has always been linguistically and culturally Russian and has been within the Russian hegemony for several hundred years. Countries that are created artificially across cultural, linguistic and religious lines nearly always end up as failed states. History is littered with them. By ignoring natural geographic regions and drawing arbitrary lines on maps and expecting them to work is an act of idiocy indulged in all too frequently in our Imperial past.and currently enthusiastically carried on by the EU and the USA.

    One only has to study countries that are successful, islands such Australia, NZ, Iceland. Isthmus nations such as Scandinavia, neatly two countries divided by high mountains. How many of such have endless wars? All are culturally homogeneous and geographical entities.

    The only way artificial countries can maintain peace is apparently for them to be under the heel of an unpleasant dictator who the west have removed at their peril to peace and pocketbook! Bloody fools!

    Why do the West think their faux democracy is a better system than any other of government? Not too good at it themselves are they? NapoleonicWars, WWI,WWII, wonderful achievements!!!

    Considering the absolute clusterfuck the West has wreaked upon so many areas in the mistaken belief that they know better I would have thought the time was to butt out of other peoples’ affairs! Leave them to get on with it by themselves. If they kill each other to the last woman and child, good, the world is overpopulated and there will be less in Birmingham!

    I have frequently mused that our world is in quarantine from everywhere else as an experiment that went just dreadfully wrong and we are too stupid, vicious, avaricious and violent to be allowed out to wreck any others in far galaxies. I for one would not let us out, would you? Somebody out their put too much raptor DNA in the mix! They need to start again.

  9. October 23, 2016 at 6:50 pm

    Christopher, our fearless leaders are fully aware of the history of the regions but that will not deter Russia’s persistent attempts at disrupting/dominating local affairs. Keeping out of Putin’s face is not a strategy.

  10. October 23, 2016 at 6:52 pm

    CO, imteresting angle – but unlikely to impress the examiners!

  11. October 23, 2016 at 7:59 pm

    JM, Janus: I don’t necessarily agree that Putin hates the United Kingdom. He’s too much an opportunist to be wedded to any particular conviction. Like the true Avtoritet, Russia Mafia Godfather, he is it’s all business and all ruthlessly pursuing his interests. If that means pretending to love Britain, he’ll do it. If that means pretending to hate Britain, he’ll do it. I suspect that he is singularly incapable of any sort of sincerity.

    There’s a distinct mania to Russia’s foreign policy. There has always been a distinct mania to Russia’s foreign policy. That Russia is the world’s largest country isn’t the result of historical quirks, like Canada or to a lesser extent China, but a highly deliberate effort to secure and protect its population and greatest asset: rich farmland. Russia has the misfortune of having the large majority of its population live in the almost defenceless European Plain. This has made Russia unusually vulnerable to invasions from the east and West. Moscow has the unusual fate of being both a great capital and a frontier city, something which is paradoxically shared with the Chinese. St Petersburg is, similarly, a frontier city. Within 50 years Russia was devastated by two World Wars, a detail which is often overlooked. The First World War was very much the fault of their Tsar and he paid with his life and those of his family for it. The Second World War was even more destructive. Thus, when within living memory 26,600,000 died due to foreign invasions and eejits like David Cameron talk about “a united Europe from the Atlantic to the Urals” and then start to push up directly to Russia’s borders, they’re going to be nervous. When The EU gives Ukraine an “us or them” ultimatum, Russia is going to play the nationalism card. After all, in the far east of Ukraine and Crimea they considered themselves Russians living in Ukraine, not Ukrainians. When a Western-instigated uprising toppled a useless, but legitimate, government and moves were made to suppress the status of the Russian language and by extension other symbols of Russian life in Ukraine a large segment of the population were going to have a problem with it. Let’s not forget that the ethnic Russian populations of Estonia and Latvia have been terribly mistreated since the fall of the USSR. Let’s also not forger that while Estonians and Latvians might resent the reminders of their brutal occupation, Russians weren’t necessarily given much choice in the matter, either. Civil liberties were not the USSR’s strongest point.

    It’s reminiscent of the collapse of Indian unity. Hindu nationalists terrified religious minorities, especially the largest. With the loss of a neutral ruling class, the British, the largest minority went their own way and the Sikhs only remained part of India because they were given no other choice. When Western Ukrainian nationalists moved to accept an anti-Russian offer, those in the East, the hearth of Russian civilisation, weren’t going to go quietly into the EU night. The EU fomented its factions, the Russians fomented their factions. Both danced a bloody dance and both inherited a poisoned chalice as a result. The Russians have Crimea and effective control over border regions, but at the cost of an embittered western and central Ukraine. The EU have their blessed deal with Ukraine, but realise that it’s an ungovernable mess that’s hardly worth the effort. Who knows if the deal with even hold after the Dutch rejection.

    As For Aleppo… Compared to US bombings of Afghan hospitals or armament of terror organisations in Syria? There are no angels in this.

    CO: There are three Scandinavian countries, you forgot Denmark. Denmark and Sweden were at war for centuries, on-and-off. Norway spent many centuries under Danish and then Swedish domination. In fact, there were some preparations made for war between Sweden and Norway in 1905 which was averted through the incredible skill of Norwegian diplomats and the brilliant patience of the King of Sweden and Norway — Oscar II. Finland was only separated from Sweden because the King of Sweden stupidly picked a war with the Russians to try to shore up his domestic position only for it to go badly wrong. Sweden was then left in a vulnerable position which the Russians were eager to exploit. By forming an alliance with Denmark-Norway, France and Dodgydagoland (May Allah turn the lot into his bum boys for eternity) the Russians were able to turn Finland into an autonomous duchy, thus making it easier to protect St Petersburg!

  12. October 23, 2016 at 8:06 pm

    PS: JM, I personally use gold rum as it gives it a fuller flavour. White rum is also acceptable. It’s merely a matter of personal preference.

  13. October 24, 2016 at 7:36 am

    It is naive to imagine that the West can adopt some kind of ‘reasonable’ policy towards Russia, ignoring provocations and intimidations in the border states.

  14. October 24, 2016 at 10:55 am

    Janus: Once again you completely refuse to acknowledge diplomatic failures on the part of the West. A large part of the problem is that the EU is a soft anti-Russia alliance, especially since the likes of Poland and the Baltic States brought their historical baggage in with them. Ukraine wasn’t simply offered a favourable trade status. It was offered an “EU or Russia” ultimatum. From a Russian perspective, their interests were in effect trashed and anti-Russia nutters were parking themselves on their border, from the Arctic to the Black Sea. The EU’s deranged “us or them” policy has done nothing but cause economic misery and chaos. Yet, our so-called “media” constantly beat a one-sided narrative into our skulls that it’s only Russia that’s being an aggressor, that it’s only Russia that’s being brutal.

  15. October 24, 2016 at 2:38 pm

    We-ell……I think JFK got right. Russia only backs off when forced to. Diplomacy can’t be a one-sided chess game.

  16. October 24, 2016 at 2:42 pm

    Tja. Janus, the difference is that JFK was actually sane and that he actually quietly reciprocated by granting the Soviets some concessions in exchange for their removal of missiles from Cuba. The EU is dominated by lunatics and fanatics who’ve made it clear that they’d rather destroy Europe than admit they were wrong about anything. The Septics are so deluded that they still think that they’re the world’s sole power.

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